DEBATE: Can LB be charged using 240v charger working off SB

[mikeonb4c]

I fitted a very large leisure battery today (Energy Bull 115/135Ah – see thread at: http://www.igmaynard.co.uk/bongo/forum/ ... =1&t=49109 ). It plopped into its bay OK, but I suspect it will not be quite so easy getting it to plop out when the time comes (as when fitting new front shockers, where it has to be removed in order to gain access – luckily I just got mine done ).

LBs like to have a full charge from a 240v device every 3 months or so, and it occurs to me that those who cannot park up somewhere where they can run an extension lead out to the car, may have a problem with this. Taking an LB out and dragging it indoors every 3 months is a pain.

What I am wondering is whether a 240V charger (I have the Aldi bargain offer version of the C-Tek type charger) could be used to give my LB the full charge it likes to have at intervals, but that (I understand) it can’t get from the 12v charging system.

It seems to me that this idea won’t work if the inverter is working off the battery it is trying to charge, so it would need to be running off the starter battery. Also, I don’t like the idea of the LB taking charge through the onboard 12v charging facility (I’ve just fitted the wonderful Willinton charging kit at the same time as fitting the Energy Bull) whilst also attempting to receive charge from the 240v charger (I’m not sure what unpredictable effects might result).

So, what if the 240v inverter ran off the starter battery (in reality it will effectively be running off the alternator and not draining the SB once the engine is running). And what if a breaker switch was fitting into the +ve to +ve connection from SB to LB so the LB could be isolated when it is receiving a charge from the 240v charger. You might then use time when you are running around in the Bongo, but not camping, to charge the LB.

You could argue then: why bother with a 12v charging setup at all. I guess the answer is that an inverter wastes power running itself before it even delivers power to the 240v charger, so it is inefficient and not a good idea for normal charging.

As regards the switching arrangements, I can think of al kind of fancy things that could be made to work by the flick of a switch: swapping 240v charge and inverter powering around so either LB or SB could receive a conditioning charge; switching on the inverter at the same time, and hard wiring the charger from inverter to battery(s) etc. etc.

But is all this nuts? I’d be interested to get the thoughts of anyone knowledgeable about this kind of electrical stuff.

You have the floor

[dandemann8]

I use a Ctek xs7000 which is hard wired to my SB so when on charge it charges both SB and LB at the same time

http://www.igmaynard.co.uk/bongo/forum/ ... hilit=ctek

[mikexgough]

I have my Aldi ctek alike hard wired to my size wise larger than Energy Bull........ Wetline brand LB......

[binky]

I think the flaw is here: "LBs like to have a full charge from a 240v device every 3 months or so."

Lead acid batteries don't like being left discharged. They don't care where they get their juice from. If they are correctly fed from the 12v car alternator - which puts out more than 14v on occasions, and are properly charged, they should be fine. (There used to be theories that the 'dirty' DC from cheap chargers would help to desulphate L.A. battery plates).

Charging the LB from the starter battery leaves you with the problem of charging the starter battery, which you do by - voila - running the engine. If it can charge the SB, it can also charge the LB, with quite a few amps at 14.5 volts or so.

If your split-charge box is working and the wiring is up to scratch, I don't think that you'll need to bother with the losses incurred by the invertor and the separate charger.

The problem remains though, for people with no easy access to their vans - especially if they are SORNed during the winter. I pull the batteries off mine and store them at home with an Optimate charger on them. It's easier, for me. The lucky ones have a hook-up point handy.

The 3 stage chargers do help topping off float levels, given ten hours or so (Accumate data).

http://www.accumate.co.uk/

[mikeonb4c]

I think the flaw is here: "LBs like to have a full charge from a 240v device every 3 months or so."

Lead acid batteries don't like being left discharged. They don't care where they get their juice from. If they are correctly fed from the 12v car alternator - which puts out more than 14v on occasions, and are properly charged, they should be fine. (There used to be theories that the 'dirty' DC from cheap chargers would help to desulphate L.A. battery plates).

Charging the LB from the starter battery leaves you with the problem of charging the starter battery, which you do by - voila - running the engine. If it can charge the SB, it can also charge the LB, with quite a few amps at 14.5 volts or so.

If your split-charge box is working and the wiring is up to scratch, I don't think that you'll need to bother with the losses incurred by the invertor and the separate charger.

The problem remains though, for people with no easy access to their vans - especially if they are SORNed during the winter. I pull the batteries off mine and store them at home with an Optimate charger on them. It's easier, for me. The lucky ones have a hook-up point handy.

Thanks binky. This is interesting, as I would have thought exactly like you (its obvious really). And yet I have definitely read advice (on more than one occasion?) tha tsays you should give your LB a full charge from a mains charger every 3 months. Why are they saying this if the in-car 12v charging system is fully capable of doing that?

But obviously I will be delighted if you are right, as I'm not after building in complexity for its own sake (and no other)!

And yes, you others, I've read before about you hardwiring your C-Teks in and its a neat idea. I may get round to doing that, but I so rarely bother with hookups (in fact I rarely go camping at present ) that it's a bit academic for me. Still a sensible idea though (must fit a suitable 240v socket for hookup on site - where's a good place?)

[dandemann8]

See below,

http://www.igmaynard.co.uk/bongo/forum/ ... stallation


Works for me

[daveblueozzie]

As for the c-tek charger, I have one fitted to the LB permanently, and when I'm on hook up it automatically charges the LB, so no worries about taking off the bongo, when I'm at home i just plug into the mains and the c-tek keeps it topped up on trickle charge.

[mikeonb4c]

Ah but you see guys, I'm trying to figure out if (assuming its necessary, and binky thinks it isn't) I can do a c-tek type charge even if never on mains/hookup connection.

[missfixit70]

In my experience a decent ctek/ lidl/conditioning type charge takes at least 24 hrs.........

[mikeonb4c]

In my experience a decent ctek/ lidl/conditioning type charge takes at least 24 hrs.........

Yes, you are right and I wasn't so much thinking of a true conditioning charge but simply a 240v based charge. But I think you are right - the whole idea is probably crackpot (no rude answers please).

I like binkys thinking cos if he's right we can scrap the whole idea.

[scanner]

Thanks binky. This is interesting, as I would have thought exactly like you (its obvious really). And yet I have definitely read advice (on more than one occasion?) tha tsays you should give your LB a full charge from a mains charger every 3 months. Why are they saying this if the in-car 12v charging system is fully capable of doing that?

But obviously I will be delighted if you are right, as I'm not after building in complexity for its own sake (and no other)!

And yes, you others, I've read before about you hardwiring your C-Teks in and its a neat idea. I may get round to doing that, but I so rarely bother with hookups (in fact I rarely go camping at present ) that it's a bit academic for me. Still a sensible idea though (must fit a suitable 240v socket for hookup on site - where's a good place?)

Mike 14.5volts is 14.5volts wherever it comes from I just do not understand the "from a 240volt source" comes from

How would it know?

I can see the benefit of a good full charge at a slow rate from time to time, but that is a different matter and to do it by your proposed method would mean having the engine running continuously for up to 24 hours .

Could you afford it?

[missfixit70]

Probably cheaper to get a new LB every year than do that every 3 months

I think you may have used this one before Mike - "Just shut up & drive"

[mikeonb4c]

Look guys, lets not turn this into a silly debate. I was only repeating what I had been told and/or seen on the instructions for leisure batteries. Prompted by the replies, I googled and found this:

http://reviews.ebay.co.uk/Why-do-I-need ... 0002291657

Which seems to explain why it is suggested leisure batteries are given a regular charge from a mains charger. It also seems to support Kirstys point about the charge from a c-tek type charger probably taking 24hrs or more. BUT, the instructions I have read before make no reference to this type of charger, and since it seems that the LB does not get full charge from the onboard system, then I think it is worth trying to have an intelligent (stress that) debate about alternatives that might work.

It seems though, that nothing short of leaving the LB hooked up to a c-tek charger at regular intervals is going to cut the mustard.

Which brings us back to why I originally started this thread i.e. how might you devise a method to give an LB a full charge if you leave in a block of flats and your Bongo lives in the street, so that you cannot hook it up to the mains.

So, if anyone can think of a way round that, it could be helpful to some people.

Off to bed now - nite nite

[scanner]

Easy answer then Mike - you either connect your charger via an inverter to the starter battery and leave your Bongo on the street with the engine running (and keys in the ignition) for 24 hours.

Or take the leisure battery off and and charge it indoors every 3 months or so.

Or how about giving it a good charge via a mains lead if staying on a campsite with a EHU?

[corblimey]

I think it's easy, as Scanner says, just charge it off the EHU when you're camping.

Come the end of the season you'd have to pull it and lug it up to your penthouse apartment

Since you've just fitted one of Martin's looms it's easy enough to repatch your accessories then you could just leave your LB charging in the garage all winter and then refit it the following season.

I only have on street parking and although I don't live in a penthouse apartment I do have to remove it to charge every now and then during the darker days.

If you want an self-contained "intelligent" charging system then you'd be looking at something like the Sterling Power products http://www.sterling-power.com/ but then cost £££