Flat Battery

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Responder59

Flat Battery

Post by Responder59 » Mon Sep 08, 2008 11:12 am

Since I bought our Bongo a year ago it has been plauged by the starter battery going flat and having to be charged to start the vehicle. This will occur after a reatively short period of non use and I beleive this is a fairly common occurence in Bongos. I recently fitted a leisure battery/ charging intelligent relay but the problem was happening before this was fitted.

Yesterday, Bongo would not turn over so I tried the following...
1 Linked the pos terminal of the leisure battery to the pos terminal of the starter battery....... nothing
2 Used both jump leads fromm L/B to S/B............nothing
3 Connected jump leads from my Focus battery to Bongo S/b...............nothing
4 Connected a starter battery charger to Bongo S/B ........ managed to start Bongo after 10 minutes

With engin running both bateries charging OK Fridge light bright and capacity meter on on the Zig moving.

Now, with a charger connected to the S/B the green LED on the relay is flashing with a ticking sound every second.

I,m a tad concerned. Especally as I was unable to jump start Bong. So I,m appealing to you lecktrickery experts for your usual profound advice!


regards,
Steve :(
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Re: Flat Battery

Post by MountainGoat » Mon Sep 08, 2008 11:52 am

I had the same problem when I first got my Bongo in February last year. Converter had connected the starter battery to the liesure battery using a split charging loom wired via the alternator. The Bongo positively hates having its alternator messed about with. After dandywarhol had taken a look at my setup he advised me to replace the loom with one of Willinton's inteligent split charging wiring looms which I was able to fit myself using Willinton's detailed instructions and photographs.
Now my bongo starts first time and every time even after not using it for a few weeks or using it for two or three nights at meets without a hookup (but I can have one). Finding out what was wrong was expensive. Went through a new battery in a few weeks (may or may not have been faulty) and spent £115.00 at my local auto electricians who did not have a clue and made no difference.
Former SGL5 Owner Jeep Cherokee 2.5CRD Burstner Ixeo Time it585
Aethelric
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Re: Flat Battery

Post by Aethelric » Mon Sep 08, 2008 12:19 pm

Check the current taken from the battery with everthing switched off.
I found my radio was taking 0.4 amps continually even when it was switched off. It is supposed to be driven via the ignition switch but I wanted to be able to use it with the ignition off. Had I not noticed it, and put in an extra switch, the battery would have flattened after a few days standing.

Dave
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Re: Flat Battery

Post by Simon Jones » Mon Sep 08, 2008 12:53 pm

I had the same problem as Aethelric, with my radio drawing a fair bit of power when switched off. Now I have fitted a switch so it can be always live on the leisure battery, or controlled by ignition switch on the main battery.

If you are able to get a multimeter set up in DC current mode between the positive of the battery & the main connection, you will see how much power is being consumed with everything 'off'. Then pull each of the dashboard fuses in turn & see if it drops to zero. With the door open, you will have power going to the interior lights (depending on which battery they have been configured to run off). Other items that may draw power could be an alarm or central locking.

Not sure where in the country you are (stick your location in your profile), but you may find a fellow owner who can pop round to take a look with a meter for you.
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Re: Flat Battery

Post by missfixit70 » Mon Sep 08, 2008 1:41 pm

Glad it's not just me, my LB seems to be dropping a lot quicker since I fitted my new stereo, haven't got around to investigating if it's to blame, another job on the list :roll:
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Re: Flat Battery

Post by Aethelric » Mon Sep 08, 2008 2:32 pm

missfixit70 wrote:Glad it's not just me, my LB seems to be dropping a lot quicker since I fitted my new stereo, haven't got around to investigating if it's to blame, anpother job on the list :roll:
I had a wire on the stereo which said to connect it to the ignition, there was another which said connect to the battery +. I wanted to run it of the LB so I just connected both to the LB. Bad move. I then used a switch between the stereo's "ignition" wire and the leisure battery and its fine. I used a push on/push off button and mounted it on the right under the steering wheel. I simply push it on the way in or out of the bongo. The stereo is left "switched on".

Dave
Responder59

Re: Flat Battery

Post by Responder59 » Tue Sep 09, 2008 11:02 am

Thanx for the info guys. Checking the battery volts yesterday gave starter battery 12.60v
and leisure battery 12.10 Today starter battery reads 12.20 and the leisure battery 7.33

HELP!!!!

Steve :oops:
Responder59

Re: Flat Battery

Post by Responder59 » Tue Sep 09, 2008 11:12 am

Simon Thanx for info. re "Measure power consumption between pos terminal and main connection" Not sure what you mean by this. As you can see from my panic post the leisure battery is draining alarmingly.

Also I can,t undarstand why BOTH batteries are now dropping. Previously, when Bongo refused to turn over the L/B was unaffected. BTW I live in St Ives Cornwall.

cheers,
Steve
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Re: Flat Battery

Post by g8dhe » Tue Sep 09, 2008 11:52 am

Steve - It sounds like you could have more than one problem to fix, with both batteries draining.

Start by simplifying the system - If the L/B is at 7.3 volts, then its not going to be doing anything at the moment - it might even have been damaged. So take it out of the vehicle and put it on a seperate charger if you have one. Make sure the L/B +ve clamp is isolated and strapped up out of the way. Also turn off all the circuits (Fridge, Lights etc.) on the ZIG, best also to switch the ZIG itself out of circuit by putting the rocker switch in the central OFF position.

You seem to have some form of multimeter ? If so ....

Now you have just the S/B in place. Make sure the ignition is completely OFF. Take the keys out.
If so using your meter set it to the 10Amp current range, to start with (you might have to move the leads between sockets on the front in some meters) now disconnect the starter battery +ve and place the meter between the +ve terminal on the battery and the +ve connector. It should read a very low value well less than 1 Amp, most likely just a few tens of milliamps. If it is a very low value then that is good,if its more than 100 milliamps then you need to identify what is drawing the current, so start pulling fuses and check if the current drops. When you have identified what is drawing current - report back here! If none of the fuses cause the current to drop then you will need the help of an auto electrician !

If the load on the S/B is just a few milliamps, then take the meter out of circuit. In this case there is no reason for the S/B to be going flat after just a day or two, either the battery is NOT being adequately charged or the S/B needs replacing - I don't see any mention of how old the battery is so that may be the problem. Let us know how this goes.

Then after the L/B is fully charged we can make suggestions as to what is happening on that side of things.

Hope this helps a bit.
Geoff
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Re: Flat Battery

Post by Yamaha » Wed Sep 10, 2008 12:50 am

Good post, Hotel Echo - I concur !! :D

Also, I believe it is possible for the diodes in the alternator. if faulty, to drain the battery.
Maybe worth having checked if all else fails.

Mike
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Responder59

Re: Flat Battery

Post by Responder59 » Wed Sep 10, 2008 11:46 pm

Geoff,
Many thanx for a succint and informative reply. I have taken off the L/B and it,s now on an "intelligent" charger.
When I waggled the pos terminal off I discovered that the heavy cable from the charging relay was loose and came away from the eye terminal. I wonder if this is significant.

On to the s/b. I disconnected the pos terminal as per instructions. With meter at 10 amps I have recorded a reading of o.o4. I assume this is 4 milliamps?

over to you bud for further instructions.

regatds,
Steve :D
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Re: Flat Battery

Post by Aethelric » Thu Sep 11, 2008 10:00 am

Responder59 wrote:Geoff,
Many thanx for a succint and informative reply. I have taken off the L/B and it,s now on an "intelligent" charger.
When I waggled the pos terminal off I discovered that the heavy cable from the charging relay was loose and came away from the eye terminal. I wonder if this is significant.

On to the s/b. I disconnected the pos terminal as per instructions. With meter at 10 amps I have recorded a reading of o.o4. I assume this is 4 milliamps?

over to you bud for further instructions.

regatds,
Steve :D
0.04A is actually 40mA. Multiply by 24 and it means you are losing about 1 AH per day. Not too bad over a week, but bad news if you leave the bongo for a month or so. It could be going to the stereo? Or maybe remote locking? This is the sort level of discharge that the cheap solar panels can compensate for.

Dave
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Re: Flat Battery

Post by g8dhe » Thu Sep 11, 2008 11:29 am

Steve, That sounds like good news. The current being drawn is just about OK (its 40mA), but as Dave above says may well lead to a flat battery over some significant time - but a this stage don't get to worried by it. The fact that the charging lead was loose, has my attention ! I would suggest that you get the charging cable well attached and then take it for a good run, and then see how the S/B holds up on its own. If the problem disappears then we can assume (always dangerous ;-) that was the cause - however Mike also has a good point and that the diodes in the alternator could also be a cause, but that will show up if the S/B again misbehaves.

Once you have the above sorted, then is the time to put the well charged L/B back in place,and then its basically the same process. Start with everything turned OFF, including the ZIG rocker switch. I would expect the current being drawn to be ZERO, if not then identifying the item drawing the current is critical, as everything is OFF,you will need to follow the wiring and see what else is connected - One thing will be the charging relay, see if you can put the meter in series with the relay (there should be a fuse in series as well, thats a good point to put the meter!) again if the current is ZERO, great if its anything more than 10mA then something is wrong - more details about the relay and how it is wired would be needed. If that is OK, then trace the wiring back to the ZIG unit and make sure that it doesn't tee off (unexpectedly) to somewhere else enroute!
Assuming that the current is very low (<10mA) then making sure that everything is switched off on the ZIG unit, put the ZIG rocker switch into the L/B position. I would expect to see some current drawn, because the ZIG charger will now be conected to the battery but as its not powered up from the electric hook up it won't be charging, again it should be quite a small current less than 20mA would be fine. If it is sigificantly greater then report back - it might be that the ZIG charger has gone faulty. OK so if we still have a low current being drawn, now is the time to start switching on each device, the currents will be up in the Amps range - but if we have got this far, my suspicion would be that you had something turned on when you thought it was off and it was that which was draining the L/B - on our vehicle we can power the fridge for about 2-4 days from the L/B without a run or a charge. If a light was left on then it would last a week or so but it will vary a lot depending on the wattage of the lamp and the capacity of the battery.
The final thing to check, whilst you still have a well charged L/B is that it is being charged ! Try plugging in the Electric Hook Up at home if you can, whilst you have the meter measuring the current from the battery - it should go -ve (assuming that the meter read +ve with a load on it or vice-versa) as the battery is fully charged I would expect only about 0.5Amp-2Amp range. Likewise with the hook up disconnected if you start the vehicle and whilst slowly increasing the revs, I would expect to see a charging current at somepoint when the relay operates again same sort of level as above. If not then again the relay is suspect (assuming that the S/B is working OK of course!). Hopefully somewhere along the above something will have shown up as the cause - if not then it might be a case of wait and see what happens - my own thought is that the charging lead to the S/B was the cause of no charging to either battery but.......
Geoff
2001 Aero V6, AFT, full side conversion.
Responder59

Re: Flat Battery

Post by Responder59 » Thu Sep 11, 2008 5:51 pm

Geoff,
Thanx again for info. I have put the charged L/B back on the vehicle and did same test as S/B
reading obtained 0.38 I refixed the charge lead from the relay started up and got 14.35 v into both batteries then ran out of diesel!!! Will I need to bleed the fuel system?

For info, my Zig unit is the basic distribution box/voltmeter (no charging) At the mo I have 12.30v in S/B

and 12.83v in the S/B. I will monitor the drain over the next 24 hours and report back

Cheers
Steve :oops:
heatherpetch

Re: Flat Battery

Post by heatherpetch » Thu Sep 11, 2008 6:51 pm

Steven guess what!a bongo needs fuel to run :D :D :D hope you get the battery sorted before Looe,have a good time and behave your self :roll: :roll: :D give Jane my love. \:D/ \:D/ \:D/ \:D/
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