Fitting a car alarm - Help Needed Please

[thedogsbollox]

Rather a lot here i am afraid but help greatly appreciated

Ok so, first page of the installation manual and I need help already.
First task is to install a relay for the immobiliser.
I assume that I have to fit the relay in the wire between the ignition key and the starter solenoid by cutting the wire and fitting each end to the correct tabs on the relay.

The relay has 2 circuits, N/O(Normally Open) and N/C(Normally Closed) not sure which one I need?

If N/O then the other side of the relay needs to be wired to one wire on the alarm unit and to Acc, which I think is the Accessories circuit.
If N/C then the other side of the relay needs to be wired to a different wire on the alarm unit and to Acc or +12vDC.

Is there a handy place to get at these wires or are they buried deep to stop the scroats hotwiring the motor?

Instead of using the ignition to starter wire, could I use the circuitry that only allows starting in DRIVE or PARK? Will this be more accessible?

There is a wire to fit to the internal lighting that will switch on the lights for 20 seconds when disarming the alarm and for 5 seconds when arming, and will switch on the lights when the alarm is activated.
Where should I attach this? Is it possible to turn on all internal lights?

I was going to attach the door trigger input to the internal lighting but 2 things sprang to mind.
If the unit itself is switching the lights on will this not activate the door trigger or will it not affect it as the alarm will be de-activated?
If I remember correctly the tailgate only turns on the rear light, the side door only turns on the middle light and the front doors only turn on the front lights, I will also be fitting a Bonnet switch. There is one door trigger wire and one boot/bonnet trigger wire. How do i wire this up so that if either switch is active, it will trigger the alarm?

There is a wire to fit to the hazard lights, in the wire from the hazard light switch and the hazard lights control unit.
Anyone know what colour this is?

Now to the fun bit.
The unit has a 2 stage door opening system. Press once and the drivers door opens. Press twice and the others open too. There is also a boot release button too.
I have been told that I would need an actuator, which I now have. I assume that because I was told this, and the fact that my bongo has no remote key fob and only opens by key, that the opening of the drivers door activates a switch which then opens all the other doors which have actuators in them. Stop me if I am barking up the wrong tree here. So would I be right in saying that if I fit the actuator to the drivers door with its feed coming from the first stage opening and disconnect the switch and connect the second stage opening to the switched side of it then this would work?
If this is right then where would I find this switch?
With all this in place, can I fit the boot release wire to the boot lock actuator?
Is there a junction box or plug or fuse circuit that I can access all these wires?

Ultrasonic sensors
I am assume that one of these is a transmitter and one is a receiver, now I have seen these fitted to cars and some are fitted to the front door posts facing backwards and some are fitted to the central door posts facing each other.
Where should I fit them in the Bongo?
I did think that one in the front right of the interior and one at the back left would cover all but that is just not how they work is it. I assume that the transmitter sends out sounds in all directions and the receiver measures the signal that it gets. Any movement inside the car anywhere, even out of sight of the transmitter and receiver will cause the sound to change and trigger the alarm.

Quite a lot for you all to chew on there. I am sure once the install starts there will be more questions.
Any tips on where to install the alarm unit itself, the siren, the transceiver for the key fob, the ultrasonics, the shock detector, the valet button, the visible LED would be much appreciated.

Lots of love and kind thoughts.
Tony

[Wicker Man]

Any tips on where to install the alarm unit itself, the siren, the transceiver for the key fob, the ultrasonics, the shock detector, the valet button, the visible LED would be much appreciated.

...just to get you started, the mobile guy who fitted mine installed the two ultrasonics at the top of the plastic trim either side of the windscreen (i.e. door pillars) pointing backwards. They are set to a low sensitivity to help stop false alarms. I can move about in there without setting them off, but if the window is smashed etc, they'll go off (I can also disarm them for when we are sleeping in the van).

This is where the siren was placed:



...and the LED here:

[jaylee]

Phew!!! There is a lot to take on board here... My advice would be plan it in bite sized chunks... Work out what goes where, make sure it fits & rout wires accordingly. (burying wires deep into the existing loom as much as possible) ... Solder connections. More reliable!!


I personally wouldn't post pictures of where my alarm particulars are on an open forum...

However! If yer able to scan in the instructions? DONT post em on here! You can pm leccy peeps & may be able to install your alarm section by section without too much disruption to yer driving pleasure!??

I for one am quite happy to help out!

[jaylee]

I was going to attach the door trigger input to the internal lighting but 2 things sprang to mind.
If the unit itself is switching the lights on will this not activate the door trigger or will it not affect it as the alarm will be de-activated?
If I remember correctly the tailgate only turns on the rear light, the side door only turns on the middle light and the front doors only turn on the front lights, I will also be fitting a Bonnet switch. There is one door trigger wire and one boot/bonnet trigger wire. How do i wire this up so that if either switch is active, it will trigger the alarm?

I have successfully over come this by using all the existing door/boot triggers covered by a similar set up... But you will need to use a diode in line or the courtesy lights will come on when you lift the bonnet!
I did leave the back so both rear & mid courtesy comes on at the same time when opening either slider or tail.. (you can switch em off.) I preferred more light coverage when loading band gear in the back!

[thedogsbollox]

I was going to attach the door trigger input to the internal lighting but 2 things sprang to mind.
If the unit itself is switching the lights on will this not activate the door trigger or will it not affect it as the alarm will be de-activated?
If I remember correctly the tailgate only turns on the rear light, the side door only turns on the middle light and the front doors only turn on the front lights, I will also be fitting a Bonnet switch. There is one door trigger wire and one boot/bonnet trigger wire. How do i wire this up so that if either switch is active, it will trigger the alarm?

I have successfully over come this by using all the existing door/boot triggers covered by a similar set up... But you will need to use a diode in line or the courtesy lights will come on when you lift the bonnet!
I did leave the back so both rear & mid courtesy comes on at the same time when opening either slider or tail.. (you can switch em off.) I preferred more light coverage when loading band gear in the back!

I havent checked yet but does the side and tail activate both rear and mid lights or one each?

[321Away]

there is a fairly simple way of joining all the lights together so that opening any door will trigger an alarm, leaving your boot/bonnet wire free.

the 2 stage opening wont work as your the first stage will unlock the drivers actuator, which in turn will unlock the rest of the car. you could try to set it up as you've described, but without knowing the exact internal design of the alarm cdl circuitry you'd be risking killing the car's circuitry.
Why do you want to connect to the hazards? connecting to the individual indicators is simple enough.

Ultrasonics should be marked T for transmit and R for receive, in general th only way to dampen the sensitivity is to connect them round the wrong way, and even in the lowest setting there is NO way you should be able to move about in the vehicle without triggering them. Point them backwards from the A pillars to give best area coverage.

is it a compact unit? ie the alarm is built into the siren? or is the siren seperate? does the siren have battery back up? whichever ensure you fit the siren in a place thats hard to acces from both above and below, The installer who fitted Wickermans took an easy and lazy option, the siren maybe hard to get at from below, break the window (triggering the alarm!) open, door/pull bonnet release and the siren is easily accessible, granted its down to individual fitters but its taking the extra time to fit an alarm properly that makes the difference between the car being stolen or not.

As previously mentioned, alarm/security installation is best not discussed on an open forum.
julian

[Wicker Man]

Ultrasonics should be marked T for transmit and R for receive, in general th only way to dampen the sensitivity is to connect them round the wrong way, and even in the lowest setting there is NO way you should be able to move about in the vehicle without triggering them.

I can! Maybe I should check it out.

The installer who fitted Wickermans took an easy and lazy option, the siren maybe hard to get at from below, break the window (triggering the alarm!) open, door/pull bonnet release and the siren is easily accessible, granted its down to individual fitters but its taking the extra time to fit an alarm properly that makes the difference between the car being stolen or not.

Not sure I agree that is a lazy option. What does the thief do with the siren once he's broken into through the window, popped the bonnet, gone round to the front, ripped it out? It'll still be shrieking from the backup battery. Once he's found some way of shutting it up he'll go back into the van and steal whatever it was he wanted. Surely he'd just break into the van take what he wants and then be off again without giving the siren a second thought.

If its the van he wants, he's still got to disarm the immobiliser.

[thedogsbollox]

I must admit I thought your siren was too handy to get at. Whack it with a hammer and silence. Take some time to find it and not be able to take a swing sounds better.

[321Away]

To shut up a siren you can do it real quickly in 2 ways, 1) drop it in a bucket of water, decent alarms like cobra's are 99% water proof but if submerged they will eventually take on water and die, or 2) spray expading foam into the siren, as the physics states if you cant move any air, you wont make any noise

Your immobiliser would protect your car from a professional thief for all of a minute or two, only factory fitted, ecu integrated immobilisers are effective, but that said they can still be neutralised, aftermarket alarms, no matter how well installed are little more than a deterrent, they make your car a bit more work to nick than the guy's in the next street.

There are lots of tricks to make vehicle security better but in the end if they want it, they'll take it!
Julian

[Wicker Man]

To shut up a siren you can do it real quickly in 2 ways, 1) drop it in a bucket of water, decent alarms like cobra's are 99% water proof but if submerged they will eventually take on water and die, or 2) spray expading foam into the siren, as the physics states if you cant move any air, you wont make any noise

Your immobiliser would protect your car from a professional thief for all of a minute or two, only factory fitted, ecu integrated immobilisers are effective, but that said they can still be neutralised, aftermarket alarms, no matter how well installed are little more than a deterrent, they make your car a bit more work to nick than the guy's in the next street.

There are lots of tricks to make vehicle security better but in the end if they want it, they'll take it!
Julian

Exactly! The alarm is only there as a deterrent against the opportunist. I have had several breakins on previously owned vehicles, and the thief hasn't given two hoots about the alarm. He's not going to bother shutting it up. He wants to be in, rifle around the glovebox or boot or whatever, and be gone in seconds. He's not going to faff around with buckets of water.

I'm not expecting the immobiliser to work miracles. Again its another deterrent, to slow the thief down a little. Just like the disklock I also fit whenever I leave the van.

[jaylee]

I was going to attach the door trigger input to the internal lighting but 2 things sprang to mind.
If the unit itself is switching the lights on will this not activate the door trigger or will it not affect it as the alarm will be de-activated?
If I remember correctly the tailgate only turns on the rear light, the side door only turns on the middle light and the front doors only turn on the front lights, I will also be fitting a Bonnet switch. There is one door trigger wire and one boot/bonnet trigger wire. How do i wire this up so that if either switch is active, it will trigger the alarm?

I have successfully over come this by using all the existing door/boot triggers covered by a similar set up... But you will need to use a diode in line or the courtesy lights will come on when you lift the bonnet!
I did leave the back so both rear & mid courtesy comes on at the same time when opening either slider or tail.. (you can switch em off.) I preferred more light coverage when loading band gear in the back!

I havent checked yet but does the side and tail activate both rear and mid lights or one each?

If yer talking about the negative trigger for the door open courtesy light?
They can be got at through the wiring from the light units & accessing the loom.. one constant live, one constant neg, & the one you want to the negative door trigger!

Your courtesy trigger in the tailgate is in the latch.. On the sliding door its on the opposite side to the 5 door pins hidden by the door when open..
You don't need to get into the tailgate.

The back; Run one of the two wires up the A pillar over the door, behind the trim to the first light, you can then pick up & follow the existing loom to the rear light...
I didn't put a diode inline on this, i was quite happy all my lights in the back coming on when loading from the rear..! You can put a diode in line between the mid light & the rear corner light? That will stop the mid coming on when the tailgate is the only door open in the back..
Reversing the diode would do the opposite for the side door, but would defeat the object of the sensor neg trigger wire on the tailgate...

The bonnet wire could be used to be triggered by the switch fitted to the bonnet running trough the bulkhead, run a second wire off this with a diode in line to stop a back run to the front cab courtesy neg trigger... Or yer cab lights will come on when you open the bonnet.

That's the front covered...

When attaching the two wires for the hazard flash (Left & Right) the easy option for me was under the steering cowl & bury in the loom.. Again you may need to use diodes in line, cuz i dunno why if the indicators left on the whole warning system on the dial pod lights up!!

Tell me something Tony... Do you have a key fob that alerts you to any form of alarm trigger with this system...??

[321Away]

easiest way i've found for the door swtches is..
1.remove the tailgate light and pull out the loom a bit, find the turquoisey-green wire with red stripe.
2.pull out the lower trim (where the rear 12v socket is) and locate the loom, split it where it goes vertical and find a red with geen stripe.
3.feed a wire down through the rear light socket and join the 2 previously mentioned wires, this effectively means either side or rear door can switch on both lights.
(If you have a rear type kitchen fitted, you can locate the red/green wire by removing the upper rear trim and pulling down the roof lining, but thats a bit more tricky)
4.In the front of the car, remove the drivers side kick panel, bit of light might help here, look at the furthest (forward, towards front of vehicle) big white connector, pull back some of the tape where the loom drops down and you'll find a red with white stripe, this is the trigger for both front doors.
5.Here's the tricky bit! using your torch shine it upwards and about 6 inches above the big white connector,you'll see a small (usually opaque) connector with about 6 or so wires going through it, one of those is a red with green stripe, that, you guessed it, runs the entire length of the vehilce to the back, where you joined the tailgate trigger, join that to the lower red/white/alarm trigger and you now have all your doors connected,so any door opening will trigger any light in the vehilce set to door.

for indicators, remove the drivers knee panel (should already be out), look in the gap and to the right of the steering wheel you should see a white connector, with a loom looping under the steering column, drop this down and pull the connector apart, using the 'rear' part of the connector, split the loom and locate 2 thinner than the rest wires, should be black with blue trace and blue with green trace, these are your indicator wires.
IF you dont have that connector, then you can also pick up the indicator wires again behind the drivers kick panel, white connector nearest you, green with white trace and green with black trace, you wont need diodes on any of these points.

Most alarm manufacturers learnt by the mistakes of the likes of Toad/Laserline etc and now their indicator wiring 'floats' instead of being grounded so the alarm units can no longer be attacked by that method, pretty much negating the need for diodes in that context.

Hope that makes sense lol
julian

[thedogsbollox]

@ Jaylee yes it has a 2 way remote that alarms and vibrates when activated.
@ Julian thanks for that. It is just what I wanted to hear.

[thedogsbollox]

You are right about the bitesized chunks Jaylee.
Managed to get loads done today.
fitted the siren
joined up all those wires Julian pointed out. Worked a treat. Was able to remove the upper Tee shaped trim at the back and join the wires closer to each other. You don't need to be a dwarf contortionist to do the front ones but it would be real handy.
Attached wires for the alarm's door trigger, switched live, perminant live, hazards.
I am a little worried about the hazzards though. On the alarm loom there is one wire that splits into 2. I assumed that was one wire each to the 2 wires julian pointed out. In the very inadequate manual it shows the wires attaching before the indicators control unit. Well it actually shows one wire joining between the hazard switch and the control unit which i assume is the flasher unit. Will i be ok where i joined on today?

Also got round to fitting my Flush fitting 240v Inlet. I have been a busy boy.

If anyone would like to PM me with where is the best place to locate the Immobiliser relay and maybe explain the Normally open/Normally closed mallarky it would be muchly appreciated.

Tony

[dave_aber]

Well done with the progress. However you appear to have forgotten to post the photos you took of the process, and the finished mains inlet.....

As for the relay terminology - imagine the relay is a switch. It is either normally open (no circuit) or normally closed (circuit connected). Let's assume normally open for now.

So, the circuit (let's say horn as an example) is wired with the normally open relay in line between the battery and the horn. Silence prevails. You apply a voltage across the coil, the current in the coil flows and the relay switch changes state from 'normally open' to 'closed'. Current flows from the battery, through the now closed contacts and to the horn. Parp.

remove the voltage from the coil, and the cotacts relax back to the normal state (open) , silence again.

Now, to slightly complicate matters, you often get relays with 3 contacts on the switch section. A centre contact which is (in the non-energised or relaxed state) touching the 'Normally Closed' contact. When you energise the coil, the centre contact moves across from the N/C contact to the 'Normally Open' contact, closing this circuit.

So, they can be used to either make a circuit when you energise the coil, or to break a circuit (or indeed change over from one to another).

HTH