Cylinder head woes

chriselmitt · Post by **chriselmitt** » Tue Jun 30, 2009 9:50 am

Hi All,
I am reaching out to the Bongo experts to see if anyone can help...A few weeks ago, I took my 2.5 diesel Bongo to Paul at Furze Motors with white smoke coming out of the exhaust. His diagnosis was a cracked cylinder head and this proved correct. I ordered a new head through the Bongo club/ AVA Leisure which Paul duly fitted. However, he says that the fitting has not fixed things, and that there is a problem with pressurisation. When he starts the engine, water quickly starts belching out of the radiator filler tank. He is going to take the cylinder head back off, to check if there is a problem with the gasket not sealing properly but he says there is also a possibility that the block has cracked.

Do any of you guys have any ideas?

Do let me know!

Thanks

Chris

Post by **westonwarrior** » Tue Jun 30, 2009 9:56 am

block cracked is not unheard of and a replacement can be got for about 800 ish plus fitting
if so you can always sell your new head to get some of the cash back

haydn callow · Post by **haydn callow** » Tue Jun 30, 2009 10:38 am

Was the top of the block "levelled" before the new head was fitted ?

cheffy34 · Post by **cheffy34** » Tue Jun 30, 2009 10:59 am

It really annoys me when people pay big money to garages to get things like headwork done then they turn around and say that hasn't fixed the prob

surely it is the mechanics job to check these things first

i would refuse to pay for the first work done as you have put your van in to get repaired on there diagnosis

Or atleast done proper investigations instead of jumping to the closest conclusion, If they had done there job correctly in the first place thay would have checked the block aswell or am i dumb

if it turns out to be the block and it was diagnosed correctly in the first place then it would have ended up being cheaper to just replace the engine in one job

this is why when i have to take my car to get work done to a garage it goes to my mate who is not a bongo spec but an audi man but he is thorough and knows what he is doing

there are to many fitters out there and not enough diagnostic mechanics

my brother was just quoted an horrendous price for a gearbox in his audi where he lives in newmarket

it is cheaper for him to drive it to devon and get my mate to do it and all because there are schisters out there that will rip you for every penny they can possible, Im not saying this is the scenario with your situation but i would be asking questions and asking what they are thinking of charging you for there mis diagnosis. Goodluck with it

Dar

chriselmitt · Post by **chriselmitt** » Tue Jun 30, 2009 11:42 am

Thanks all for the prompt replies and sympathy/ support. I knew I could count on you guys

Firstly, thanks for the note, Dar. To be fair to Paul at Furze (least anyone think badly of him), the head was crack tested and failed, so whatever else might prove wrong now, it definitely needed a new head.

Haydn, Paul did speak to AVA and they mentioned about the block being level before fitting and he did check that.

He hasn't seen a cracked block before (although he has done a fair amount of Bongo work in the past) so Rob it's useful to hear that this isn't unheard of, and also for the steer on prices, thanks.

cheffy34 · Post by **cheffy34** » Tue Jun 30, 2009 11:53 am

chriselmitt wrote:Thanks all for the prompt replies and sympathy/ support. I knew I could count on you guys
Firstly, thanks for the note, Dar. To be fair to Paul at Furze (least anyone think badly of him), the head was crack tested and failed, so whatever else might prove wrong now, it definitely needed a new head.

Haydn, Paul did speak to AVA and they mentioned about the block being level before fitting and he did check that.

He hasn't seen a cracked block before (although he has done a fair amount of Bongo work in the past) so Rob it's useful to hear that this isn't unheard of, and also for the steer on prices, thanks.

Fair point it prob did need a new head but now it would appear it needs a new block

which means it would have been easier to replace the whole engine, i payed a £1000 for a block on my quatro 5 cylinder direct from audi in Germany(totally different i know) and the only reason i did that was because the head was checked thoroughly before i chucked money at it , don't know but it may be worth checking with mazda how much the block is new if they are £800 S/H, i would also like to say i have no idea what i'm talking about

but i do hate being quoted a price then the goal posts are changed

God forbid if i ever cook the heads on my v6

All the best

Dar

francophile1947 · Post by **francophile1947** » Tue Jun 30, 2009 12:25 pm

Before rushing out for a new block, was a genuine Mazda head gasket and new bolts used? There have been problems with the non-official replacement gaskets.

New Forest Terrier · Post by **New Forest Terrier** » Tue Jun 30, 2009 5:56 pm

Is this Furze Motors in Southmpton? You don,t give a location.

If you are in that area Discount Trucks near Newbury are the experts for all Bongo problems. Might be worth getting a second opinion.

chriselmitt · Post by **chriselmitt** » Tue Jun 30, 2009 6:25 pm

Thanks for the note, about Newbury Discount Trucks - I have just had an update from Furze (yes the one in Southampton) and in consultation with AVA the likely prognosis is a porous block...

I'll call AVA tomorrow to see what they recommend, I'll also call Newbury, but any other recommendations would be welcome.

Thanks all

haydn callow · Post by **haydn callow** » Tue Jun 30, 2009 8:13 pm

As understand it.....If a block is porous it was made porous...it would have been a problem from day one in 1995 or whatever....a piece of metal cannot just "go porous"
Sounds like like a "fob off"

waycar8 · Post by **waycar8** » Tue Jun 30, 2009 8:26 pm

Did it have new gasket and head bolts? new thermostat? before you go down the new engine route check the obvious first. I agree with Haydn, if a casting is porous its always been porous, so its a fault somewhere else imo, if the thermostat it stuck you wont be able to bleed the system properly, and once youve got air in the system you will have a blow out through header tank, your mechanic does know theres a bleed hose under the passenger seat doesnt he?

mikeonb4c · Post by **mikeonb4c** » Tue Jun 30, 2009 9:03 pm

haydn callow wrote:As understand it.....If a block is porous it was made porous...it would have been a problem from day one in 1995 or whatever....a piece of metal cannot just "go porous"
Sounds like like a "fob off"

Thats what I've tended to think to whenever I hear the term used. The idea it can become porous sounds odd - I mean how? Cracked and core plugs I can understand but porous

Post by **westonwarrior** » Tue Jun 30, 2009 9:20 pm

I assume the term porous means allows water through or cracked

francophile1947 · Post by **francophile1947** » Tue Jun 30, 2009 9:28 pm

westonwarrior wrote:I assume the term porous means allows water through or cracked

Agreed - it's just a bad use of a word.

New Forest Terrier · Post by **New Forest Terrier** » Tue Jun 30, 2009 9:40 pm

What was the scenario for the head cracking? Did it overheat? Can there still be the original problem unresolved and still causing trouble despite a new head?

Porous block is also a problem on land rovers and needs a pressure test to confirm. More often diagnosed than actually found. I think what the term means is water leaking from somewhere in the block, rather than the whole block letting through water.

As the Bongo cooling system is so complicated, well worth asking Gerry and Fred at Discount Trucks for an opinion.

Worst case scenario is to replace the engine and find you still have problems due to a blocked radiator or similar.

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