Eberspacher questions

Technical questions and answers about the Mazda Bongo

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missfixit70
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Eberspacher questions

Post by missfixit70 » Sat May 02, 2009 6:18 am

I'm considering the option of having Simons old eberspacher D1 off him, something I've been thinking about for a while as I seem to do a lot of my pootling around off season (when it's less chaotic & full of younglings, bumping up prices etc :wink:) therefore always seem to be cold :( .
Having perused a bunch of the old posts on eberspachers, got a few questions for those that have them (feel free to tell me to bog off & do a search :wink: )
In real terms, how much juice will the D1 drain from the battery?
Will it do a couple of nights without having to run the engine to recharge the battery?
Would it be better to connect it to the starter battery with the high initial drain? (bearing in mind it's got a cut out at 11.5v I believe)
If properly mounted, how noisy are they?
Does anyone think they're a waste of time/space effort/money & I'd be better off just runnning the engine to warm the van up when necessary?

That'll do for starters :wink:
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Re: Winter pack removal

Post by Morag » Sat May 02, 2009 6:27 am

Today I will mostly try and record a video of how the eberspacher sounds for you, then I'll spend tomorrow try to find out how to post same :!:

We have the D2, you can hear it, I'm not going to say noisy because it's not that bad, but I can sleep through it no problem.
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Re: Eberspacher questions

Post by dandywarhol » Sat May 02, 2009 9:44 am

You know my thought on them Kirsty so I could be biased..........

D1 draws more than D2 at startup - loads of bumf here........
http://www.eberspacher.com/support-and- ... ments.html

Properly mounted and running on low I don't find the noise a problem but I rarely sleep with it on - too warm! The D2 in a wee bit noisier - fan noise.

I've wired both I've fitted to the main battery, because of the initial current draw and had no problems over a weekend.

Give me a shout if you want fitting info
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Re: Eberspacher questions

Post by Ron Miel » Sat May 02, 2009 11:04 am

Kirsty. Our B1 (petrol equivalent of the D1), under-mounted in a custom steel enclosure, IS noisy, and I wouldn't want to sleep overnight with it running unless the ambient was not too cold and the thermostat kept the heater off for most of the time. You know our philosophy on camping (hookup, and fan heater luxury, whenever possible), so we bought the Eberspacher mainly for daytime autumn and winter "events", i.e., day van, use.

Our Elecsol 100 leisure battery copes fine with the heater start current but it is rated for both starter and deep discharge leisure use, so it should easily do so - and the B1 draws less than a D1 anyway. Otherwise, it probably depends on how marginal the leisure battery is - I would have thought that most of them could provide 260W for a few minutes without damage though.

For overnight use, why not also investigate the cost of a used Propex (apparently much quieter) LPG heater, and a leisure LPG tank, before committing to the D1. If that were cost effective for you, and if there's room, the LPG tank could also fuel cooking and/or a gas fridge. We couldn't do it that way because, even after removal of the space saver spare, our 66 litres LPG engine fuel tank left insufficient room for a second LPG tank in areas away from the hot exhaust - and you can't mix engine fuel and domestic LPG supplies from a single tank.

EDIT: Just re-read your post. No, we don't think they're a waste of time, space or money for anybody who intends to off-hookup camp, or even park up at events as per us, in the UK "out of season". Only used ours a few times late this past winter but would not want to face next autumn/winter/early spring without it. Running the engine just to help maintain body heat isn't the most efficient way to do that is it, K? :lol: My conscience wouldn't let me do it, unless just very occasionally and without long term Bongoing intended :)

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Re: Eberspacher questions

Post by Ron Miel » Mon May 04, 2009 12:19 pm

Ron Miel wrote:Kirsty. Our B1 (petrol equivalent of the D1), under-mounted in a custom steel enclosure, IS noisy, and I wouldn't want to sleep overnight with it running unless the ambient was not too cold and the thermostat kept the heater off for most of the time. You know our philosophy on camping (hookup, and fan heater luxury, whenever possible), so we bought the Eberspacher mainly for daytime autumn and winter "events", i.e., day van, use.

Our Elecsol 100 leisure battery copes fine with the heater start current but it is rated for both starter and deep discharge leisure use, so it should easily do so - and the B1 draws less than a D1 anyway. Otherwise, it probably depends on how marginal the leisure battery is - I would have thought that most of them could provide 260W for a few minutes without damage though.

For overnight use, why not also investigate the cost of a used Propex (apparently much quieter) LPG heater, and a leisure LPG tank, before committing to the D1. If that were cost effective for you, and if there's room, the LPG tank could also fuel cooking and/or a gas fridge. We couldn't do it that way because, even after removal of the space saver spare, our 66 litres LPG engine fuel tank left insufficient room for a second LPG tank in areas away from the hot exhaust - and you can't mix engine fuel and domestic LPG supplies from a single tank.

EDIT: Just re-read your post. No, we don't think they're a waste of time, space or money for anybody who intends to off-hookup camp, or even park up at events as per us, in the UK "out of season". Only used ours a few times late this past winter but would not want to face next autumn/winter/early spring without it. Running the engine just to help maintain body heat isn't the most efficient way to do that is it, K? :lol: My conscience wouldn't let me do it, unless just very occasionally and without long term Bongoing intended :)

Cheers
David
Re-read this whole thread yet again just now, as I had a niggling feeling I had still got something wrong. Realised then that you weren't suggesting leisure battery "damage" due to the D1's start current, just questioning capacity - silly me, should have known better where you were concerned :oops: Anyway, I seem to remember that, in another thread somebody did once say theirs ran happily all night, if not all w/e on their leisure battery - and. of course, the problem is greatly lessened by setting the thermostat near one or other limit (you just bake or freeze, though :lol: )
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Re: Eberspacher questions

Post by missfixit70 » Mon May 04, 2009 12:24 pm

Cheers for that guys, still pondering, but did notice yesterday that the Numax LB I've got is also rated as deep discharge & starter battery, not sure if that means much, but it says to me it's possibly better suited than I thought, to the sort of use & charging it gets.
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Re: Eberspacher questions

Post by dandywarhol » Mon May 04, 2009 11:21 pm

We ran the heater all night last night on "1". We were fairly close to a river but didn't hear the heater at all. In the morning the van was a toasty 20 deg and outside was 5 but the heater just idled away keeping the van warm.
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Re: Eberspacher questions

Post by Ron Miel » Tue May 05, 2009 8:34 am

dandywarhol wrote:We ran the heater all night last night on "1". We were fairly close to a river but didn't hear the heater at all. In the morning the van was a toasty 20 deg and outside was 5 but the heater just idled away keeping the van warm.
Ah yes, I had forgotten that dandywarhol - the B1/D1s are either full on or not on, with no variable settings. No wonder yours is quiet. Hmmm, shouldn't have saved a few bob by buying used on evilBay should I, although I do have the excuse that by the time we bought, Eberspacher had dropped the petrol version. Webasto hadn't though.
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Re: Eberspacher questions

Post by dandywarhol » Tue May 05, 2009 6:11 pm

Not so sure about the "full or not on " bit Ron - if you set the switch to "1" then the system goes full blast (depending on temp. at the intake) until it reaches whatever "1" is meant to be and then regulates the fan speed/fuel amount. If you set it to "4" then it'll keep belting out heat into the mid/high 20s.

Is the D2 different?
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Re: Eberspacher questions

Post by Ron Miel » Tue May 05, 2009 11:24 pm

dandywarhol wrote:Not so sure about the "full or not on " bit Ron - if you set the switch to "1" then the system goes full blast (depending on temp. at the intake) until it reaches whatever "1" is meant to be and then regulates the fan speed/fuel amount. If you set it to "4" then it'll keep belting out heat into the mid/high 20s.

Is the D2 different?
Perhaps I made the wrong assumption here, dandy. Inferred that you have a D2 but as you're asking if the D2 is different, perhaps you've also got a D1(?). Anyway, our B1/petrol, which I believed had the same functionality as the D1/diesel (combined manual for the two of them), came with a simple on/off switch, plus an inline thermostat/switch and, if it's running at all, it's at a fixed fan speed/fuel amount, other than in the start up, and power down/cool down phases. Will dig out the manual to see if other speed modes are possible, with a different swiching controller.
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Re: Eberspacher questions

Post by Alison01326 » Wed May 06, 2009 12:09 am

Having a good read here, having already previously asked a few questions via the forum about heating. We have decided to go ahead and get an Eberspacher after yet more days out left myself and the boy shivering over our packed lunches in the Bongo with blankets over our knees because I hate to sit parked with the engine running. That was the weekend before last - cold wet and miserable. I know we could just go home on days like that with the heaters on but why spoil a day out. I think what did it was the sad little voice saying "Mum, why haven't you bought any central heating for the Bongo yet? I heard you talking about it and you haven't got it yet." Also reading Ron Miel's post that his will be used for days out too made me feel less indulgent :) The only cold weather "camping" we are likely to be doing while the boy is so young is a couple of nights a year on grandma's driveway!

Anyway, noise wise - how would you rate it compared with the background noise on a ferry? Or a tumble drier doing its thing in the next room? Or an extractor fan in the hotel toilet two feet from your ear (anyone remember hotels - those things some of us used pre-Bongo)?

And I still haven't got the thing about battery drain #-o Presumably it requires the battery to start it? So this could be 20 times in a night depending on where your thermostat is set? We've got an Elecsol 100 leisure battery which should cope as long as we didn't spend a week without driving (unlikely in cold weather, I feel - we'd be heading off to a nice warm museum or somewhere!!)

Looked at your pics, Dandywarhol. Very useful although I don't recognise all the locations, still being unfamiliar with every inch of the Bongo thus far. We are going to have to go for a professional installation not cos we're particularly flush but it would never get done if we had to tackle it ourselves as I prefer to stick to simple mechanical stuff and unfortunately due to lack of days off and nowhere suitable to do the job (the street is not a good place to work on a vehicle) my husband doesn't want to make any promises either. I've also got a bit more particular about things now that we have the boy to worry about. Anyway, I've approached Espar in Plymouth who seem to be our most local Eberspacher dealer who install in vehicles and whilst they have heard of the Bongo they have never installed a heater in one and want to have a look at it before they agree to do the work.

Anyone used the other branch of Espar in ... oops, can't remember where it was now. Too much web surfing. Either Marlow in Bucks or somewhere in Hampshire (Southampton probably). Why does Marlow spring to mind?

And last question (sorry, Kirsty, rather hijacking your original question here), why do I think I read somewhere on here about an outlet to the AFT?

This really is the last question - does the Eberspacher have all its own outlets (blowers, whatever) or does the heat also come through the standard Bongo blower vents?
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Re: Eberspacher questions

Post by missfixit70 » Wed May 06, 2009 12:36 am

Not a problem Alison :wink: , I think, due to financial constraints as well as the time & energy involved in fitting it exactly how I'd want it, I'm going to have to leave this one for now & concentrate on getting on & enjoying the bongo & getting the rest of the round tuit list attended to :roll:
Thanks for the input guys, I'd still like to go for one eventually, but for now I'll stick with hot water bottles, more clothing, hookup, leccy heaters & running the engine if it gets to cold.
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Re: Eberspacher questions

Post by Ron Miel » Wed May 06, 2009 8:43 am

Alison01326 wrote: >
>
Anyway, noise wise - how would you rate it compared with the background noise on a ferry? Or a tumble drier doing its thing in the next room? Or an extractor fan in the hotel toilet two feet from your ear (anyone remember hotels - those things some of us used pre-Bongo)?

And I still haven't got the thing about battery drain #-o Presumably it requires the battery to start it? So this could be 20 times in a night depending on where your thermostat is set? We've got an Elecsol 100 leisure battery which should cope as long as we didn't spend a week without driving (unlikely in cold weather, I feel - we'd be heading off to a nice warm museum or somewhere!!)
>
>
>
And last question (sorry, Kirsty, rather hijacking your original question here), why do I think I read somewhere on here about an outlet to the AFT?

This really is the last question - does the Eberspacher have all its own outlets (blowers, whatever) or does the heat also come through the standard Bongo blower vents?
Hi Alison
Some answers:

i.) Quieter than all of the above - no problem at all for day use but (B1 at least) still noisier than we like at night. Having said that though, and now that it's not as cold at night, so the thermostat can be set for just occasional running, we're going to use it overnight outside Holyhead ferry terminal next week, rather than risk an A55 traffic problem getting across to the early Irish ferry in the morning.

ii.) Elecsol 100 and Eberspacher combo is absolutely fine unless used (in colder temps, with much on/off running) overnight for several nights, without a re-charge.

iii.) Eberspacher has its own ducting and closable/swivelling outlet(s). You buy ducting, branching and outlets to suit but only one outlet is really needed in a Bongo. As I said, our local installer (a VW camper specialist - shhh!) made a custom under-body slung galvanised steel enclosure for the heater itself. The duct is brought up through the floor pan into an over the rear wheel arch cupboard just inside the sliding door (just visible in the bottom pic if you look at "The Purbeck Gallery" here http://www.imperialcar.co.uk/the_purbeck). That does lose us 50% of the space in that particular cupboard, and stops us putting anything heat sensitive in it but, with the outlet then facing forward (low, into the the sliding door entry/step area, so not hindered by anything), it makes a brilliant heat circulation location. I might get time to take and post some pics later today but won't promise, as I'm a bit pushed. We've also got the Porta Potti boxed into the area between those two cupboard/seats, so it's a bit of a dismantling job!

iv.) Do you mean the standard AFT circular push up ventilation trap, nearside forward in the lifting AFT "floor"? Not aware of anybody having ducted the heater up to there - it would be difficult. Keep the vent open though, and Eberspacher heat will go up into the AFT.

Hope that helps, David
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Re: Eberspacher questions

Post by Alison01326 » Wed May 06, 2009 11:10 am

Thanks, David. Very helpful indeed. Myself and the boy are very heavy sleepers and my husband's snoring is like a supertanker running on to rocks so it's unlikely we will hear the heater!!!

If you are off on your travels next week don't worry too much about pics as I am fairly useless at working out what's where unless I take the laptop outside to the Bongo and compare. We don't have a conversion (well, we have a removable one) so it would be interesting to see where the chappie would put our bits and bobs. If you are anything like me, I treat the week before a holiday like the last week of my life and try and get 1000 things done. We are going to our first meet this weekend and the living room floor is currently covered in camping equipment so I can put it into its relevant boxes so that it all goes in and out in the right order (I'm untidy and disorganised when I am home, but if I am camping I like to get things done with military precision - very strange).

And yes, I do mean the little ventilation hole (as in my Avatar). I've searched the posts using a variety of words but probably imagined that someone said they put a tube up there from the heater. Maybe they are reading this?

Again, don't worry about photos. We won't be getting the heater until later in the year (need to save up for it first so estimate August/September) so although they would be helpful, there's really no rush at all.
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Re: Eberspacher questions

Post by dandywarhol » Wed May 06, 2009 2:48 pm

As Ron Meil says plus - the original ducting isn't up to the heat produced by an Eber - liable to melt!

The noise on low position is pretty buch background - it can get noisy on full blast, but is unlikely to be on that for long.

For me the ferry noise isn't as obtrusive as the rumble/vibes from the shafts.................
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