Overheating - Head Gasket?

[MONDO-BONGO]

Hi Folks,

Another cooling system/head gasket query.
About a month ago I noticed steam coming from my bonnett, stopped and called the RAC who diagnosed a leaking radiator. My local garage were good enough to replace it with a new one bought by myself on ebay. I needed to top up a couple of times but otherwise all seemed well...

Last Tuesday (the very very cold day, -8 C), after driving for 4 miles, no heat coming from the heater, I heard a whooshing, I believe from the expansion chamber and noticed that the temperature gauge had shot all the way over to the right. Whilst waiting for the RAC man again I allowed the car to roll back slightly and noticed a leak on the floor which must have come from the centre of the vehicle. Cooled down and topped up with water I went back to the same garage who subsequently diagnosed a water pump problem. More reluctantly they allowed me to source my own water pump. Again on ebay, 1 yr warranty, £39.99. About a hundred quid less than he had wanted to charge me for a replacement pump.

Whilst road testing the vehicle, the mechanic noticed the temperature spike and then settle down. He said it might have been an air bubble but this was unlikely as he had carefully bled the system. He said, more likely and very worryingly it could be that the head gasket has blown and that this is what has caused the other problems. They told me to watch the temp gauge closely for a few days and to stop if the car overheated. Well, next time out, the car did overheat. I allowed it to cool down and then returned home.

My question is:
Do people think this is likely to be a head gasket problem?
What might I pay for tests that will confirm this problem?
If I attempt a repair, can I buy and replace just the head gasket (£20) or do I need to replace the full set (£80).
Should I swallow hard and take it to the garage for a "at least £500 job"?
I replaced a head gasket on a Triumph Herald 20yrs ago with the manual but have barely looked under a bonnet since (except for maintenance obviously). Is this job likely to be to difficult?

Cheers
Mike

[mikeonb4c]

Oldgit (Tom) was on here the other day reminding us how- after a big bill from a garage for a job that didn't last/work - he bit the bullet and tackled it himself and it worked out fine. I'm beginning to think it is not that impossible. Simon Jones has also done his own. Have a search to see what guidance is on here. It seems to me you might be able to do a lot of the unbolting work whill sitting comfortably in the front seats. The queries I still have are:

1) I think you have to get the head tested for cracks as otherwise you could waste a lot of time (and some money) for no result.

2) I'm not sure what special tools you might need (torque wrench for one and a bit of confidence at using it. Also there has been debate about 'flatting down the block' before fitting a new gasket.)

3) Is it straightforwadrd transferring all the valve gear from the old head to the new one. On which score I saw on ebay a couple of days back a company (Yorkshire based?) offereing complete heads with valve gear installed and with a 3 month guarantee. Interestingly, they made it clear they don't use cheap heads as they've had a lot of trouble with them. See http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/FORD-RANGER-MAZDA ... 240%3A1318 (there's a couple of other advertisers too, but they don't talk about what quality the head is etc.).

Good luck - keep us posted

[haydn callow]

I think the problem is stated in your first paragraph above......Steam under the bonnet.....you lost coolant via the radiator and it steamed....RAC ??what did they do and how did you get to garage.....did the garage know what they were doing with a BONGO ?? Was it ever bled properly after the new rad was fitted.....
Now sounds to me as though Head gasket/head has gone....if the temp gauge moves to hot ..often the damage is done....
I would advise getting your Bongo to a BONGO garage and getting them to advise you.
Where are you ??Newquay...Can you get it to Allans at Plymouth ??? well worth giving him a ring....advert on this site.

[Simon Jones]

A temperature spike is not a symptom I have come across for head gasket failure. The usual two are: white smoke / steam in the exhaust & coolant being forced out of the expansion tank. If the coolant level is neither rising more than about a centimetre, or dropping, then the head gasket is probably ok. Taking the head off is the last resort after elimating thermostat, split pipes, blocked radiator & off course re-bleeding at least a couple of times.

What state was the anti-freeze? The problem occurred when it was very cold & you say the heater wasn't blowing warm air. This could indicate a weak mixture which allowed ice to form in the system. This weekend, I left a bottle of water in the van which was parked in a garage & it was frozen solid on Saturday. The engine is a lot more exposed to the elements, so inadequate strength coolant increases the chances of ice forming. I would imagine that after the work you've had done, that the garage would have replaced the anti-freeze by now.

I bought a head gasket set & used all the bits apart from valve stem seals as I did not remove the valves. Although you may be able to re-use many of the original gaskets, but after 10 - 14 years of use, they will tend to have hardened & will be less likely to seal properly after being disturbed. If you do take the head off you must replace the cambelt (approx £20), or get the whole kit with tensioner & spring (approx £60). Given a reasonable level of mechanical competance & a decent 1/2" socket set, its not a massive job to change the gasket, but do read the guidance on the forum to ensure you get a good seal when you put it back together. Good luck with your investigations.

[dandywarhol]

Remember to fit new head bolts - they are of the stretch variety and should only be used once - otherwise you're liable to have recurring problems or a sheared bolt.

[MONDO-BONGO]

Thanks for the advice everyone,

After listening to what you have said I think I will take it to a Bongo friendly garage and get it tested before deciding what to do next. I like to save money but I’m not sure I meet Simons description of “a reasonable level of mechanical competence”.
I think Hayd might be right about the bleeding although the mechanic said the bleeding had taken him longer than actually changing the rad so I know he tried! If the head has been the problem all along, how long can you drive with a cracked head without serious and obvious problems? This has been going on for over a month and yet there has been no sign of steam in the exhuast. Coolant may well be coming out of the expansion tank but there was no evidence of this when I overheated last night? Saying that, I have had to top up with another two litres this morning so I am a bit perplexed to know where else I could be loosing the coolant from? Is two litres likely to require further bleeding? If I can get to Bodmin today, there is a Bongo friendly garage I can go to for some advice.

Thanks again for the brilliant and quick advice!

[bigdaddycain]

Hi Mondo, you will experience cold heaters when the coolant level drops too low, it sounds like you have trapped air in the system to me.

I daresay your mechanic has tried his best to bleed the system, but the bongo bleeding procedure is as far as i know unique to the bongo, and he could be excused for not knowing the intricasies involved.

A pretty definitive test to see if the head has gone is as simon suggested earlier, see if the coolant is being thrown out of the header tank with the engine running.

Or a sniffer test at your garage for an official diagnosis...

Best of luck

[MONDO-BONGO]

Hi Bigdaddy,

I am hoping you are right. I drove the car 24 miles and back today without overheating. It was with a mechanic for a few hours who checked for leaks and frightened the life out of me saying that almost all of the Bongos he sees that overheat have cracked heads (£1,000 job).

No sniffer test so no confirmation regarding the head...just advice to keep an eye on it and hope for the best! I have bought some more coolant and will try to bleed the system again on Thursday. If this story has a happy ending I will definitely be getting a coolant alarm!

Here's hoping .

[bigdaddycain]

Your mechanic may have been playing devil's advocate there mondo... They like to prepare you for the worst, rather than hinting it may be a smaller job... It prepare's you for the bill just in case it IS the worst case scenario!

You don't appear to have all the other classic symptoms of head gasket failure, it really does sound as though the bleeding hasn't been caried out properly, hard to make a diagnosis via satellite! All the usual disclaimers apply to the above....

[MONDO-BONGO]

Just an update,

Since my last post my bongo has been running very well. No overheating, no coolant loss. The mechanic at the garage told me that this can happen but it doesn't mean the problem has gone away and is just as likely to rear it's head in the future.

I have to say, with this sword hanging over me I am feeling less affectionate toward my bongo and a little afraid of it. This might sound fickle to some of you more mechanically minded or maybe those who are better off but I am seriously thinking about getting a more sensible, less thirsty and hopefully a more reliable (I know there are no guarantees) vehicle.

I still appreciate the advice those on the forum have given me

Cheers

[heatherpetch]

hopefully more you use it your confidence in the bongo will grow

[MONDO-BONGO]

Further update...

I thought I would let you all know that the bongo is still running fine with no overheating problems. It seems that the symptoms were definitely due to incorrect bleeding by the first garage. Despite the best intentions, I haven't yet bought a coolant alarm (low funds and other priorities), but I have learned from the experience and now keep a much closer eye on the coolant levels and temp needle.

I have a mate who puts his bongo on ramps to raise the front when he bleeds and he says he has had no problems doing it this way??

As for the love affair, she is a cheaper date than she used to be now the price of diesel has come down and I have had more chances to get inside her to fiddle around. The two year itch is over and we are looking forward to a beautiful summer together.