Do bolts need retightening after a new cylinder head change?

[zowat]

Hi all,

I had the very costly job of having a new cylinder head fitted on my '95 Bongo back in May. It's been fine until now, except that on start up most mornings it has been chucking out white smoke and it has been running a bit rougher than usual. I thought getting a service in a couple of weeks might sort this out.

However, my uncle has suggested that perhaps the cylinder head needed re-tightening after a 'run-in' period and that the white smoke could be water getting in. Not really understanding things like this myself, I don't know - but today I heard the bubbling in the expansion tank and a very loud sound that was like I was driving over a cattle grid! I got out, fully expecting to find something had dropped off the van - but instead it was water under the bonnet... everywhere! I think the pressure had forced the water out of the overflow pipe so hard that it had caused the 'cattle grid' noise. Temp gauge was up more than usual (just over halfway - but not rocketing). I tried idling the van with the expansion tank cap off for about 20mins once I'd initially crawled home and let it cool down. It only took about 15mins for the fan to cut in and the water to be steaming/bubbling. It would bubble and spurt and then the water would settle; then spurt a bit more.

So now I'm really worried - is it possible that I could have another cracked cylinder head? I called the garage straight away and they think there could be an air lock in the system. I'm unable to get it to them though, because they're about 25/30 miles away from where I live! If I drive it like this I'm thinking I may do more damage!

Should the garage have asked me to come back for retightening or is this just old school stuff now?

Hope someone can help me! Thanks...

Zoe

[sparkymik]

Try running it without the air filter, but don't take it on the road, it maybe that your filter is rammy, I had the same thing and a new filter sorted it out hope this helps

Just a thought is your Bongo fitted with a winter pack? ie twin batts', if so check you have not switched on the prewarming heating for the engine, it's a switch with an engine on it right side of the stearing wheel


Sparky

[trevd01]

Try running it without the air filter, but don't take it on the road, it maybe that your filter is rammy, I had the same thing and a new filter sorted it out hope this helps

Just a thought is your Bongo fitted with a winter pack? ie twin batts', if so check you have not switched on the prewarming heating for the engine, it's a switch with an engine on it right side of the stearing wheel


Sparky

Are you responding to the post about re-tightening a new cylinder head/overheating?

I only ask because I can't work out the connection with running without an air filter, or the prewarming...

[sparkymik]

Smoking

Sparky

[mister munkey]

It don't sound good Zowat, from what you are saying.

Sounds like head gasket at the very least, maybe there's a local techie to Darset that could check it out for you . . . .

[zowat]

OK, I'll see if removing the air filter does anything for the smoking problem... thanks for that! It has just been pointed out to me that the so-called 'smoke' however could indeed be steam - a symptom of a cracked cylinder head. OMG please no - not again!!

I wish I knew why these Bongos just seem to be prone to overheating. So many people have discussed having similar problems! It's not like I don't check the levels regularly either. Have been keeping a close eye on it since the last crisis which resulted in my purse being emptied of £1075 just 12 weeks ago !! So, as you can see this is why I'm very keen to ensure I keep tightly hold of my pennies this time!

Zoe

[sparkymik]

I live close to B-mouth, If you need a hand

Sparky

[mikeonb4c]

I'm afraid it doesn't sound good. BUT, surely the garage must accept there should be some sort of warranty with work like this. If it's gone AWOL, they should be explaining why. Have you contacted them yet to ask. Wish I could offer more cheer. I agree with you, I just don't know why a small number of Bongos should prove so troublesome like this. Keep in touch, we'll help for as much as we are able to.

[zowat]

I live close to B-mouth, If you need a hand

Sparky

Thanks Sparky - that's kind of you! I work in Poole - not sure if that could be too far for you - but if I get really stuck I'll give you a shout.

[zowat]

I'm afraid it doesn't sound good. BUT, surely the garage must accept there should be some sort of warranty with work like this. If it's gone AWOL, they should be explaining why. Have you contacted them yet to ask. Wish I could offer more cheer. I agree with you, I just don't know why a small number of Bongos should prove so troublesome like this. Keep in touch, we'll help for as much as we are able to.

You're right - I took it to the garage with an overheating problem and expected it to be sorted out. So I will see how I get on tomorrow and have the van towed there if necessary!

The garage did tell us there is 12months warranty on the work - so strictly speaking, we should be covered. I'm just a teeny tiny bit concerned because there's nothing on the paperwork/receipts that proves this! I'm sure they'll be fine...

Thanks for your support!

[zowat]

Ok, just to confuse matters further... my other half has just got home and told me that it's actually blue smoke on start up in the morning (not white as I seemed to think! )

I think I'm right in saying this is oil... could it still be a gasket problem then if it's oily smoke (instead of steamy smoke?)

Boy! Now I'm really going round and round in circles!!

Sorry to be a pain...

[mikeonb4c]

No probs - just keeping posting. garage should be able to test coolant for traces of exhaust gas (which would confirm head gasket leak). The water blowing out the header tank is worrying even with the smoke diagnosis as it sounds like excess pressure from gasket leak (though I'm no expert - lets wait and see what others say).

I would hope very much that the garage will act responsibly. If not, there's always Citizens Advice and Local Trading Standards you can talk to. The thing to watch is that they don't try and suggest that something you have done since the work has caused it. I wonder if AA do an independent report, should you need one. Its all money though and I sympathise deeply with your dilemma. Really, all cars are a potential nightmare in this respect. If it was an old banger, you'd write it off and replace. But a Bongo is a bit special and you don't like to give up.

Keep in touch and put it out of mind for tonight.

Mike

[Simon Jones]

Cylinder head bolts on the Bongo don't need re-tightening (unlike some older vehicles used to). If you have had the head removed before then the garage should have changed them. They are known as stretch bolts and they should generally not be re-used unless they have only recently been replaced & are still within manufacturers tolerances.

White smoke / steam is a classic sign of water in the cylinder bores, especially on start up. Now you have also got pressure in the system, it does tend to point to one (or more) of the following:

1) Head gasket failure - where it is no longer performing its job of keeping the water, oil & combustion gases seperate
2) Warped / cracked head - typically caused by an overheating incident
3) Cracked block - this is the cast iron lump that contains the cylinder bores. There is a water jacket aound the cylinders & there is only a few mm of metal to keep it all seperate. I have only come across one Bongo owner who has experienced this, so it is extremely rare.
4) Another owner had a seal fail in the turbo so that coolant was being forced into the engine, but again, this is a very rare occurance.

In the first instance, I would suggest speaking to the garage who did the previous work. There should be some form of warranty which may cover this.

The symptoms you describe of water coming out the expansion are typical either of an airlock (so the water is not circulating properly & is literally boiling like a kettle), or combined with the white smoke on start up, it will probably be gasket or head failure.

If the original garage is unable to help, I would recommend you speak to Tom or Keith at Bellhill Garage near Bath / Trowbridge. They were absolute super stars when I had a similar issue to you & they have the facility to transport your van there. Do not drive it in its current state - it will only make the problem worse. But, it may not be a total disaster at the moment. When I had a similar problem, I had the head skimmed to take of any possible uneveness & also pressure tested to check for cracks. Fortunately, the head was not damaged so I was able to re-fit it, which saved about £400 - £500.

If you want to drop me a pm, I'd be happy to give you my number to discuss this further.

[Simon Jones]

Just re-read you posts Zoe. If the smoke is blue on start up, then that tends to be oil as your other half suggests. This is nothing really to worry about. As Doone suggests it could be a leak where air has got in. It is worth giving the system a really thorough bleed before starting on anything more drastic.

The first time my engine had a problem I tried several attempts to bleed it but all in vain as air was continuously getting in via the leaky gasket. When I recently had a pin-hole in a pipe, I bled the system very thoroughly (for over an hour) & after that it has been fine.

You may want to wait until the garage as confirmed how they would want to proceed, because they may be reluctant to assist if they know that you've had a go yourself.

Best of luck - keep us posted on progress.

[mikeonb4c]

But, is it possible tha oil might leak from the head into the bores (from cracked head or gasket problem) when stationary, causing blue smoke on start up? I've no idea but the thought occurred