sediment light on and engine died

[ronhud]

Last night as I was driving along the sediment light and hold light came on and the engine died. I stopped and after a minute started again - the engine fired but reluctantly for about 15 seconds then ok. It happened again about 15 mins later and started again. So this morning I removed the banjo filter (why is it called that) looked clean but I washed it out in white spirits and replaced. Engine started but again reluctantly. I put some bio-diesel from a local 'commercial' supplier about a week ago and I have about a fifth of a tank at the moment. The only time this has happened before is when I put bio-diesel in so it seems more than a coincidence.

I understand bio can wash dirt along the fuel pipe but I didnt find any in the banjo filter. The last time it happened I unscrewed the water trap from underneath the filter but I didnt see any water in it. I havent done that yet this time - its a messy job and I found it awkward to access.

I am interested in any comments on this experience.

I looked at the fact sheet on the banjo filter - when I removed mine there was a brass collar and washer under the bolt above the filter but the fact sheet doesnt mention this. Should all Bongos have this collar - if so I might help to show this on the fact sheet to avoid confusion.

Ron

[ronhud]

Oh and if I wanted to check for dirt in the fuel tank is there any help anywhere on how to do this?
Ron

[francophile1947]

It's called the banjo filter because it's in the banjo connection to the fuel pump.
Undo the plastic bit on the bottom of your fuel filter and see what drains out - it sounds like you may have water in the fuel. If so, it's probably a good idea to change your filter.

[mister munkey]

the sediment light and hold light came on and the engine died.

Not heard of that before. Sediment & Charge lights means the alternator's shot.

Does Sediment & Hold mean something else?

[Dabs]

Ron
To be honest I dont think Biofuel and Bongos go together,id stick to diesel and NEW Veg oil if I were you.Think you may find the fuel filter is full of water!!
Did you have whitish?blueish smoke from the exhaust as well?

Dabs

[trevd01]

Were all running partially on Biofuel (for the moment, until a change in government policy)

But Bongos can run on the environmentally acceptable recycled-oil biodiesel, as can any post '94 diesel vehicle.

The recycled-oil biodiesel suppliers in Huddersfield recommend changing your fuel filter after 500 miles, that all.

http://www.greenworldbiodiesel.co.uk/index.html

These extra fuel filters at about £3 are often recommended:

http://www.leisureshopdirect.com/marine ... ilter.aspx

Maybe it might be using biodiesel after using veg oil?

[ronhud]

Thanks for the replies so far. I shall remove the plastic cap under the fuel filter this morning - is it possible to do this in such a way that one knows if there is water in it?

Trev - have you been using the biodiesel from the Huddersfield facility? I am reluctant to conclude my problem is from their fuel since it is much cheaper than ordinary diesel and if the Bongo is happy with it then its a bonus in several ways.

Bev from the Huddersfield biodiesel posted a long message on another thread yesterday 'Where to buy commercial biodiesel' I think. I have emailed her today re my problem so will see what her answer is.

There is confusion about WVO - I mentioned recently on the forum that I thought the glycerine content which is removed when WVO is processed exists in the original SVO and someone replied that it is not in the original oil and comes from animal products being cooked in the oil. I have checked with an industrial chemist and am assured that the glycerine is part of the SVO molecule so when we mix SVO with our diesel glycerine is a part of the mix.

Ron

[bigdaddycain]

is it possible to do this in such a way that one knows if there is water in it?

Hi Ron, if you remove the fuel filter carefully, keeping it upright on removal for minimum spillage, the chances are you'll see any water (if there is any water present) floating on top of the fuel in the filter, the water won't mix with the oil of course, so it should be relatively easy to see it.

[missfixit70]

Water should be in the bottom Ste, oil floats on water, hence the drain at the bottom of the filter

[ronhud]

Any suggestions for removing the filter, I've looked at the fact sheet. A new filter was fitted by Wheelquick about 3 weeks ago so it should'nt be 'gummed in' but what the hell do I grip it with and preferably from above!
Ron

[bigdaddycain]

Water should be in the bottom Ste, oil floats on water, hence the drain at the bottom of the filter

That's correct kirsty, but it also depends on the level of contamination,if there is a cup full of water in the system, the water can still float on the top of the filter upon removal, this is evident from the "rainbow effect".

It may only take a trace element of water to get the rainbow effect though...

[bigdaddycain]

Any suggestions for removing the filter, I've looked at the fact sheet. A new filter was fitted by Wheelquick about 3 weeks ago so it should'nt be 'gummed in' but what the hell do I grip it with and preferably from above!
Ron

I'm going from memory here ron... remove the holder to the plug from the chassis, (squeeze the tab on the rear gently with long nose pliers), When the plug holder has been freed, unplug the cable, and stash it to one side, (preferably somewhere relatively clean),If you don some gloves, you should be able to unscrew the filter if you can get as best a grip as you can with both hands.

I THINK there is a left hand thread on the filter ron, so as you are looking at the filter,turn the "top end" (nearest to the engine) to the rear of the bongo, (to the left).

I had a helper below, to take the filter from me, and extricate it from below, you may have a struggle threading it through the chassis from above, without spilling the contents over the engine. (especially with greasy hands/gloves).

Be careful that the filter is absolutely level when finding the thread for re-fitting the fiter ron,yo really don't want to cross thread it mate.

[ronhud]

BDC - thanks for your helpful response, much appreciated.

I tried to remove the filter but I aint as flexible as I used to be! So I've bought a chain type filter removing tool that is used with a tommy bar and socket wrench. But on my own although I could get the chain round the filter can there are too many metal bits in the way to turn the wrench. Anyway I got under the van and managed to remove the white bowl thing - I held a plastic container underneath and caught some of the fluid from the filter - no sign of water, no rainbow effect. The original problem - engine dying was very much as though either fuel or electrics had stopped. When I restarted after the stop the engine cranked and rattled several times before firing properly which to my lay mind suggests no fuel in the pipe until it primed again.

When dirt causes a block and nothing is in the banjo strainer does that indicate that the block is between the fuel tank and the fuel filter? I am hoping that it was a fuel blockage caused by the cleaning effect of the biodiesel because I dont want the cost of replacing the alternator - is there any way to check the alternator condition.

I had a quick reply from the firm that makes the biodiesel - they say that they test their product and this includes for moisture/water content and no one else has reported a problem.

If muck is being cleaned from the system will it be something on the pipeline lining or from the fuel tank. If the latter can anyone suggest the procedure for cleaning the tank?

Lots of suppositions here - it would be nice to nail it down.

Ron

[bigdaddycain]

Unfortunately, there are many places that could be starving the engine of fuel...Perhaps its unconnected from the bio-diesel, and there is simply a leak at the pump ron? This could do two things, starve the engine of fuel when in demand, and introduce air into the fuel lines,which then makes its way down the injector rail, and can actually cause a type of airlock at the injector end. Bleeding of the injectors would be required if that was the case.

My initial suggestion would be too get as much clean diesel into the tank as possible, and (if she ticks over properly) let the bongo tickover as long as you can, then gradually increase the revs...if you can get 2500rpm out of her, take it momentarilly to 4500rpm very briefly,and repeatedly...There is just a chance that this could clear the blockage from the injectors or wherever.

The other option you have is to take a clean container filled with diesel, then remove the pipe from the fuel filter that feeds the pump, (nearest pipe to chassis rail, heading to the front) Submerge this into the container of clean fuel, then start the bongo, rev her to 3000rpm repeatedly, this may just clear the injectors if they have gummed up a bit, plus it bypasses the other possible sources of contamination, i.e the tank, the fuel lines, the filter, you are introducing fuel straight into the pump (virtually) then into the injectors. Diesel is very good at cleaning things. Especially clean diesel.

I'd also try removing the filter, half filling it with clean diesel, cap each end with a clean rag, then give it a damn good shaking! Empty the contents, re-fill with diesel, then re-fit to the bongo and try to start her again, not forgetting to prime the pump first.

Good luck ron....

(p.s. for the purposes of cleaning the injectors, you can fill the fuel filter with it, and start the bongo up on it, it'll go straight to the injectors that way, without it getting diluted with too much diesel.)

[ronhud]

Well - I've run on petrodiesel only since the prob and everything is as it was before the hiccup. Trevd01 mentioned an inline filter from leisureshopdirect, does anyone know how and where to fit this? I have made my first batch of biodiesel from waste cooking oil and it is currently going through the settling stage, perhaps one of these small inline filters would be a useful precaution. Unfortunately if petrodiesel continues to go up in price I wont be able to justify the cost of using my Freda.

Ron