Coolant Loss Detection Kit: Advance Orders Now Being Taken

[haydn callow]

Even a new hose could fail. If you replaced them all at once,How many joints clips would that be on a bongo?? loads... Bet you wouldn't get them all coolant under pressure tight first time !!! Better fit a ALARM whilst your doing it. You know it makes sense. Only the cost of a tank of fuel after all. 15p a day for a year. What does it cost to fit a new cylinder head or even a engine.??

[Barnet Al]

Count me in please Ian.

I'm with Haydn and Mike on this one, I am of an age now when I prefer sitting in the driving seat to working underneath it.

This is not to say we should fit the alarm and forget about the hoses. It would make sense to change some of them when the time to renew the coolant comes round if we could identify which were more likely to fail.

[harpo42]

Yep put me down for one as well.

[Lewy]

Yep - I'll have one.

[bigdaddycain]

I'm more likely to kick down the fence,rather than sit on it... but i can see a lot of good points here. I dont think anybody on forum, mechanic or not,is going to pretend that there is a foolproof way of NEVER losing the coolant on a bongo.

Ok, so you change ALL the coolant pipes... but for what?

Play it safe,and go for mazda originals from a dealer?

(the ones that have been collecting dust on a shelf somewhere for the past ten years?) Admittedly, these havent had 50 million cubic litres of hot coolant flowing through them, but they are essentially also untested.

At least i KNOW that all my old rubber pipes are holding the coolant nicely right now. (fingers crossed )

The coolant loss detection kit is a good peace of mind bit of kit, and i will invest in one of these devices in due course.

Can we concur that the best "preventitive maintainence" with regards to the bongo's cooling system is to replace all the hoses,bleed properly,fit the C.D.L. Kit,and sit back knowing that nothing can go wrong?
In theory yes,but there is also something to be said for not fixing what aint broke, (yet).

In other words, the bongo's cooling systen is a complicated, yet effective system (on the whole) but a little piece of mind will help us all to stop looking at the gauge,and keep our eyes on the road.

[Vanmanerik]

Not for me Big Daddy, preventive maintenance has a lot going for it, thats why 99.9999999999999999999999999999999999999999% of aircraft are flying safely, trains, buses, boats are all running reliably because they go in for regular maintenance and any parts that are known to wear out quickly or fail after so many hours are replaced.

You only have to look at the vast majority of the rubber coolant hoses on the Bongo to see thay are getting hard and brittle and so many reports of leaks ond over-heating on the forum are showing it is time for replacements.

I am going for the replace all pipes and as yet have managed to fabricate most of the heater hoses, bleed pipe, and other small bore hoses using standard water hoses (not fuel hose) of 8mm, 10mm, and 16mm i/d and standard copper plumbing fittings.

If you were to replace them all using the Bongo originals it will cost you an arm and a leg if you can get them, Ian tried for me but was unable to get them although I have seen them on other websites - most of the heater pipes seemed to be around the £20.00 mark.
Heater hose is around £2.00 - £3.00 a meter and plumbing fittings are pennies. The most expensive items will be original Jubilee Clips but I am keeping my eye on Ebay for these.

I think the hoses for the top and bottom feeds to the radiator will have to be originals as I have not yet traced any 35mm rubber elbows, the steel tubes to and from the radiator are not a problem.

The small bore metal tubing connection the heaters and running to the front of the Bongo is liable to form pin holes eventually but it will be simple to cut out and replace the affected pieces with rubber hose, just carry some as spare with you just in case.

Hopefully after completeing the replacement of all the hoses I will not have to worry about splits and cracks slowly leaking coolant and causing overheating, then I will think about fitting a warning device - just in case.

[Bonza]

Just to correct you there vanman.

Most parts on aircraft are "on condition", even most jet engines. Most systems are maintained on replace when failed basis or degraded in performance.

Redundant system design, experience of in service life plus MONITORING (usually by datalink these days) plays much more a part of maintaining integrity of a system than the regular random changing of parts. Only some parts are "lifed" as it were.

There is some evidence that changing or overhauling some parts willynilly creates more trouble than its worth to the system. "If it aint broke etc"

I wish you well with changing everything in the coolant system but monitoring may be far more cost effective and in the end and not involve the drastic replacement of parts.

Just my 2ps worth.
Tooooooooooooodle pip
Stuart
30 years of big aircraft engineering

[Vanmanerik]

And I used to fly quite happily knowing that everything that could break had been replaced, now you tell me they are 'maintained on replace when failed basis or degraded in performance'.

I think this means ' wait till it breaks or stops working properly' - don't sound good to me, and I am sure it ain't what you mean literally. Just imagine a warning light going off when you are 1000 miles from land saying 'sorry old sport thats all the engines knackered now' just for some-one not replacing a coolant hose bercause it had come to the end of its known working life, we was waiting for it to fail or show a degraded performance.

Well tell me that when a hose goes on my Bongo when travelling on the the motorway and a hose goes, 'oh dear a degraded hose, I will stop and fix it'. More like 'O ****, what a pain in the ****, I wish I had replaced that sooner'.

I appreciate what you are saying but I know what I meant about regular maintenance and replacing parts before they reach the end of their life.

[smartmonkey]

Not for me Big Daddy, preventive maintenance has a lot going for it, thats why 99.9999999999999999999999999999999999999999% of aircraft are flying safely, trains, buses, boats are all running reliably because they go in for regular maintenance and any parts that are known to wear out quickly or fail after so many hours are replaced.

You only have to look at the vast majority of the rubber coolant hoses on the Bongo to see thay are getting hard and brittle and so many reports of leaks ond over-heating on the forum are showing it is time for replacements.

I am going for the replace all pipes and as yet have managed to fabricate most of the heater hoses, bleed pipe, and other small bore hoses using standard water hoses (not fuel hose) of 8mm, 10mm, and 16mm i/d and standard copper plumbing fittings.

If you were to replace them all using the Bongo originals it will cost you an arm and a leg if you can get them, Ian tried for me but was unable to get them although I have seen them on other websites - most of the heater pipes seemed to be around the £20.00 mark.
Heater hose is around £2.00 - £3.00 a meter and plumbing fittings are pennies. The most expensive items will be original Jubilee Clips but I am keeping my eye on Ebay for these.

I think the hoses for the top and bottom feeds to the radiator will have to be originals as I have not yet traced any 35mm rubber elbows, the steel tubes to and from the radiator are not a problem.

The small bore metal tubing connection the heaters and running to the front of the Bongo is liable to form pin holes eventually but it will be simple to cut out and replace the affected pieces with rubber hose, just carry some as spare with you just in case.

Hopefully after completeing the replacement of all the hoses I will not have to worry about splits and cracks slowly leaking coolant and causing overheating, then I will think about fitting a warning device - just in case.

Are you saying the engineers at Mazda don't know what they are doing by using those long lengths of radiator hose? I am sorry you can dismiss all their research and development skills so lightly.

[Ian]

We have concluded discussions with all parties on this, and after taking in to account shipping from Australia, component assembly, VAT, UK postage etc, the final costs are higher than originally anticipated. They are as follows.

Recommended Retail Price is £85.50 (fully inclusive)
Bongo Fury Members Price is £79.
Advance Orders Price (first 20 only) is £59.25.

To get on the list for the advance orders price, all you need do is send me a PM or email, including your real name (not Forum tag), and your club membership number or postcode. This offer is open to paid-up club members only. Once we are up to to 20, I will post here to tell everyone.

SEND NO MONEY NOW. You will receive an email with payment details once the kits have arrived.

[Vanmanerik]

Ay up smartmonkey, you say 'Are you saying the engineers at Mazda don't know what they are doing by using those long lengths of radiator hose? I am sorry you can dismiss all their research and development skills so lightly.'
I don't quite see where you are coming from can you elaborate a little please? Although I expect its a p*** take on where I insist on using the correct tyres and water hoses but not fuel hoses instead of water hose.

[smartmonkey]

Sorry I couldn't resist it.
I find it's normally the joints that leak and as you will have a lot more of them it could be a weakness. The rubber often perishes where it is compressed by the screw clip and can also suffer from localised stress. The corners will now have to cope with more of a point load for vibration and weight.

The upside is that you will have significantly better cooling with a few additional lengths of steel in the sytem so it could well help the head gasket.

I am not sure it is worth the effort because I find the rubber gives a bit of warning before it goes. It usually gets harder or swells before failure so you have a chance to change it. Having said that I have saved a fortune over the years with extensive preventative maintenance so I see entirely where you are coming from.

[Vanmanerik]

Thanks for those comments smartmonkey, I can agree with most of them but there is not much of an alternative. Like you say most hoses give a warning of either hardening or swelling well unfortunately I have hardened hoses here and there so they have to be replaced. I asked Ian at Bongo Towers to quote for them, there were about 13 in total but Ian could not supply them, so where do you go now?

I did a Google and found some of the pipes available from different suppliers at really exhorbitant prices. Can you beleive the bleed pipe is around the £20.00 mark? A replacement made from a one meter length of 10mm i/d Goodyear genuine heater hose cost me £1.74!

Now I am willing to take the chance of making my own hoses wherever possible, keep an eye on them for a week or two to check for leaks at the joins and then forget them and enjoy a few years trouble free motoring.

Don't we all get fed up driving a potential steam train?

I aim to enjoy the open road with a leak free, reliable, Bongo because other than this they are a great motor.

[Veg_Ian]

Without wanting to rain on anyone's parade maybe the point here is being missed and that loss of coolant from the expansion tank is only one of the symptoms of a blown HG or split hose. The real problem is that the temp gauge is for the most part pretty dormant and hence the driver is oblivious to there being a problem until it is too late. This is common place on many Japanese vehicles. Typically the gauge on the Bongo starts the cycle by gradually moving the needle as the coolant warms up until it reaches 11 o' clock then goes to sleep. I suspect the only time it moves any higher is when it is too late.

This is something we deduced many years ago on the Toyota Townace site. Subsequently an electronics enthusiast on the site devised a gizmo that sits in between the temp sender and the temp gauge.
http://www.townace.plus.com/ie/ietemga2.htm

What it effectively did was remove the dead spot on the gauge such that the needle on the temp gauge then moved in relation to the heating and cooling of the coolant passing the sender, making use of the full range of the gauge, not just less than half of it. It also incorporated a user adjustable alarm so that the owner could decide at what point he wanted alerting to the fact that things were getting a little warm down below.

The Townace by the way had a bad reputation for overheating and blowing the head. Far worse and frequent than in relation to the Bongo. It was all too common for the engine to overheat, push coolant into the expansion bottle and dump a few litres of coolant on the road via the overflow, leaving a full expansion bottle. A sensor for detecting coolant level in the expansion bottle wouldn't have much use in this scenario.

I think that if I got paranoid about overheating/coolant loss with my Bongo I would be looking to do something about modifying the crap temperature gauge or even replacing it with a Durite gauge that would give a true representation of the coolant temperature.

[Peg leg Pete]

Excellent post Veg-Ian and also Vanmanerik