A dishonest Bongo Sale? broken manifold stud

MAGMA · Post by **MAGMA** » Sun May 13, 2007 1:11 pm

I am a new bongo owner, and I bought a vehicle with a high pitch noise (like a loose belt) coming from the engine on take off. A 1996 2.5 Turbo Diesel Automatic. The seller (private sale) said the noise was nothing ..."probably just a wet belt" and he would take care of it. We (my wife, 4 yr old, and 2 yr old) bought the bongo, but were so excited we didn't stop to question the continued noise from the engine. 2 weeks later, a mechanic investigates the noise for us and tells us a stud is broken off inside the manifold - that leads to the cylinder head - and once the shop has more time, on Monday, they will open up the manifold and see if they can remove the stud. The mechanic also said there was a fresh bead of silicon around the manifold, like someone had recently been looking at the same problem and just decided to patch it up and possibly recommend to the owner "you better sell this ASAP...". Well, my question: Since this was a private sale, and sold "as seen", and since the owner did not disclose that it may have a major problem, especially if someone has already tried to drill the bolt out and drilled at an angle, in which case in can be VERY expensive to fix this problem, what legal actions can I take when I approach the seller with this information?

Thanks,
MAGMA

mikeonb4c · Post by **mikeonb4c** » Sun May 13, 2007 2:33 pm

I've a sinking feeling you may be stuck with it as it is a private sale. I'd find it hard not to write to him to say 'thanks mate' though. Anyone else care to comment?

moonshine · Post by **moonshine** » Sun May 13, 2007 2:43 pm

Unfortunately Magma, I would have thought that no legal action could be taken against the seller. With private sales it's usually a case of "buyer beware", and there is very little chance of legal come-back whether the seller knew of the problem or not. It is up to the buyer to ensure that the goods are in satisfactory condition and worth the asking price. A totally different situation exists however if the seller can be shown to be a trader "in disguise". I would try to find out if your seller has sold any other vehicles lately, or has any more advertised for sale.

I must state however that I am not a member of the legal profession, but there is probably someone on here who is, and can advise you further.

francophile1947 · Post by **francophile1947** » Sun May 13, 2007 3:17 pm

I doubt if you can do much about a private seller. The good news is that it is a fairly common problem with the Bongo and can be easily fixed at a garage.

francophile1947 · Post by **francophile1947** » Sun May 13, 2007 3:18 pm

By the way, welcome to our very useful little madhouse

pippin · Post by **pippin** » Sun May 13, 2007 5:43 pm

Caveat emptor I'm afraid.

Just being posh, it roughly translates as "buyer beware", "he alone is responsible if he is disappointed", literally "let him beware".

It is a very precise legal term.

Means that you, the buyer, have to satisfy yourself that the goods are fit for your purpose.

The sale is then made on the basis of "as sold, tried and tested".

If you are deliberately misled then you would have to sue for recompense/restitution in a civil action. Not easy/cheap.

Get the opinion of a solicitor as I am only a "galley lawyer"!

Tom Cruise · Post by **Tom Cruise** » Sun May 13, 2007 7:06 pm

I think you will find that even as a private seller if a question is asked and you lie about the answer, you are liable in court.

As I understand it you asked about the noise and was told it was nothing and it would be sorted you also have evidence of the manifold being botched?

I think you could have a claim for any repairs, the only dificulty is proving that you asked the question in the first place, but could be worth a try.

rontrousers · Post by **rontrousers** » Sun May 13, 2007 9:28 pm

Assuming the Bongo was advertised somewhere, what wording was used? If the seller described it as "in good working order" or similar, you may have a claim for misrepresentation (which I believe is a criminal offence).

Hope things get sorted.

Regards

ron.

haydn callow · Post by **haydn callow** » Sun May 13, 2007 10:38 pm

It's not a major problem. It will be No 1 manifold stud and any decent spannerman should be able do drill it out and helicoil it. Very common problem. Mine had it, cost me £40 (cash in Hand) to a chap and it took him a couple of hours. No worries!!!

David Edwards · Post by **David Edwards** » Mon May 14, 2007 5:39 pm

What you have to think about as well is, how much did the vehicle cost you, was it top dollar or did you get it fairly cheap, was he looking for a quick easy sale. He may have had bad advice re the stud and been told it was a lot worse than it seems so he thought to get rid of it quick. His defence in any litigation may be that as far as he was aware a simple engine squeak had been fixed by a garage and that he did not know about the broken stud. Unless this is going to cost you a lot of money, which being a broken stud shouldn't really, then put it down to experience, have the bongo checked over just to make sure nothing else is wrong. Private sales are normally "sold as seen" but if you have any doubts, pop along to your local trading standards dept and have a chat, its free and will put your mind at rest. If that is all that is wrong with it and it is fixed quick and reasonable, just enjoy it. Remember if any help is needed re problems, the forum and its wicked members are here for us all. Happy motoring.

bigdaddycain · Post by **bigdaddycain** » Mon May 14, 2007 6:57 pm

Hi Magma, sorry that your first post has to be on a negative aspect

Welcome to the forum by the way... If you do have any legal recourse, it may be worth taking the time to offset the potential legal costs against the cost of the repair... That's probably what the original seller was banking on!

But look at it this way... If he had been advised to get shut off the vehicle (after the mechanic had clocked the age, then thought it not worth fixing)

Then you came along and bought it for a good price,but it can be rectified for £40 ish? Then who's had the last laugh?

MAGMA · Post by **MAGMA** » Mon May 14, 2007 10:09 pm

Thank you all for your great comments. I definitely asked the right crowd. My mechanic is confident he can get it fixed. The total cost is still an unknown, but I've been praying to the Bongo Gods. ..
And yes, I got this cherry ride for 5500 GBP with about 60,000 miles on the engine and a camper conversion in the back. So, I'm not complaining, just trying to keep track of where the bad Karma is flowing to and from.

Thanks again to everyone!

MAGMA

mikeonb4c · Post by **mikeonb4c** » Mon May 14, 2007 10:41 pm

Good luck MAGMA. £5500 isnt bad for a 60k converted Bongo if it seems in overall good nick. But get the stud fixed. Also, try and find out why it went. I seem to recall that a warped manifold can be the cause, and I think, but not sure, it can be skimmed in that case. In turn, the warp may have been caused by an overheating episode. So try and check out any evidence of there having been an 'incident'. Hate to bring all this up but best faced head on now rather than later I think. BF techies like Dandywarhol or smartmonkey (and others - apologies to those not named) may be able to chip in with thoughts on all this, or PM them.

Mike

smartmonkey · Post by **smartmonkey** » Tue May 15, 2007 1:43 pm

I buy a lot of cars and it has never once occured to me to complain to the previous owner. The time for checking is before handing over the cash. I always leave a bit of cash spare because you will have to fix a few jobs the last person left. People rarely sell cars because they are running perfectly and freshly serviced.

If the Bongo is in tidy condition, doesn't use water and has a tight gearbox then you have a good one. If it is a nice little conversion then you even got it at a reasonable price.

The stud will be easy to fix with a helicoil and you might as well get the gasket face checked whilst it is out (just put a straight edge or sheet of true glass on it and check with a feeler gauge). A skim will be much cheaper than having to do the job twice. The total job will be less than £100.

Enjoy your new Bongo and chill about the simple stuff.

David Edwards · Post by **David Edwards** » Tue May 15, 2007 4:45 pm

Come on peeps, five and a half grand for a converted bongo.. that's got to be a steal in anybody's book. I would have bought it for that even if I realised the stud had broken, the re sale value when done will write that off no probs. I think you have been lucky and the previous owner will kick himself if and when he finds out. Out of sheer evilness I would tell him it was a simple repair and that the bongo is worth about £9000. That should just about tick him off and serve him right. Happy motoring. ( you jammy devil)

A dishonest Bongo Sale? broken manifold stud

A dishonest Bongo Sale? broken manifold stud

Re: A dishonest Bongo Sale? broken manifold stud

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