Towing A Caravan: Is It Legal

[Ian]

I know many Bongonauts tow a caravan, but what is the legal situation? According to HMG advice:

"If your VIN plate doesn’t list a train weight, you should not use your vehicle for towing." (see https://www.gov.uk/towing-with-car/weig ... dth-limits)

Does this mean we can get stopped by the police when towing? Does it invalidate our insurance?

[mikeonb4c]

Hmmmm, interesting. There seems to have been discussion of this for a while. One interesting chat i found was at:

https://forum.elgrandoc.uk/threads/towi ... iven.2706/

...where on page 1 someone has said:

There’s some info here about the Bongo and towing: https://www.lifesure.co.uk/blog/2014/02 ... g-weights/

...and on page 3 was a letter sent by the Dept Transport in May 2016 in reply to one person, and it read:

Thank you for your email dated 7 April to our IVS enquiries helpline. I have been asked to reply.

Unfortunately there is not an easy answer to this question, which is a common problem for “grey imports” from Japan, as your Nissan presumably is. As the manufacturer has not specified a weight, we are unable to suggest a suitable weight as the Department has no knowledge of the vehicle specification and design attributes, or even if it is suitable for towing.

You will need to contact the vehicles manufacturer, explain this problem to them, and they should be able to help you with this matter.

Yours sincerely

James Brown

Department for Transport

[Ian]

I wrote to Mazda UK about this and received the following replay:

"We do not hold data for Mazda Bongo towing weights here in the UK but we are able to approach Japan to request the data for each individual vehicle if required.

If needed a Bongo owner can call us on 03457484848 or send us an e-mail to [email protected] requesting this data. We would need the following information:
Vehicle VIN
Customer name
Customer contact details including e-mail address

We can then approach our contacts in Japan for the required information."

[Bob]

Thanks Ian.

[Northern Bongolow]

go on boys you know you want to.
get together on this and apply with an old shape and new shape diesel vin, then a v6 and 2ltr petrol, sorted.

[Ian]

....and a low top v AFT, and automatic v manual. Lots of combinations.

[helen&tony]

Hi
Surely that won't help if you haven't got the VIN plate altered? If stopped, it still won't show the information on the VIN plate. You may need to get a ministry approved plate made?
Cheers
Helen

[Ian]

A copy of a letter from Mazda will do the trick. Which could be supplied by the club if needed.

[chief]

I know I'm bumping an old thread but I always meant to get back to this post about our response we received from Mazda Japan however things happen in life and you tend to forget, anyway...

My mother sold my late fathers' car and replaced it with a Bongo as she had wanted a camper van that could also tow the family caravan and the Bongo ticked a lot of boxes, not least of all that it had a towbar fitted.

We thought nothing about it not being okay to tow with (not that we actually have towed with it) until we saw the information about contacting Mazda UK on Bongo Fury about towing.

My mother wanted to make sure everything was legal and above board and decided it was better safe than sorry so followed the advice in this thread by providing the relevant details:

If needed a Bongo owner can call us on 03457484848 or send us an e-mail to [email protected]

It took many, many months (and much chasing up) and the response finally came back from Japan to say that for our Bongo (2.5TD, 4WD, AFT) was not permitted to be used as it was not applicable for towing with.

Anyone else here tried contacting Mazda and got a different response or are we the first people to try?

Have to admit, if there was one thing I'd like to see in the UK's future it would be towing laws that permit the driver to decide if their vehicle can tow or not, probably a pipe dream that.... , of course there'd always be those who would take things too far (as this YT video shows).

Chief.

[Bob]

Hmm...

I'd certainly appreciate a letter from the Club saying it's ok. Please.

[teenmal]

Hmm...

I'd certainly appreciate a letter from the Club saying it's ok. Please.

If you want an official letter you will need to contact the manufactures design and development for the particular vehicle .As a rule of thumb if the OFFICIAL owners manual describes " towing with vehicle" your vehicle is suitable for towing (weight restrictions apply) if it is not structuraly designed for towing there will be no mention of "towing with vehicle" in the OFFICIAL MANUAL.

Take care.

[mikeonb4c]

To me, all this seems to be saying is that no certification exists to confirm that Bongos are approved for towing (in the UK)? If so, that doesnt necessarily mean they can't be used for towing due to structural unsuitability, simply that noone in officialdom will put in print that they are. So maybe its just a grey import issue? If its more substantial, then would manufacturers of Bongo towbar be facing law suits and worse? My insurance company didn't bat an eyelid when i told them i'd be towing a small caravan.

[chief]

My insurance company didn't bat an eyelid when i told them i'd be towing a small caravan

In my own case I have two cars., One which is permitted to tow with, and one (a Mazda as well actually, but not a Bongo) that isn't as it was never type approved.

The car I can tow with is older, not as powerful and wouldn't be as safe to tow with as the more modern Mazda that isn't permitted to be used for towing (though people still do use them, and again their insurance companies don't bat an eyelid).

Question I guess is, if you had an accident would the insurance company claim you weren't insured if it was shown you couldn't legally tow with your vehicle?

Edit: I see there has been further updates to the LifeSure insurance page on towing with a Bongo after someone pointed out that what they said conflicted with what the DVLA site says. LifeSure responded with an update after contacting the Department of Transport:

The DoT have confirmed that it is perfectly legal to tow with your Mazda Bongo despite the GTW not being on the VIN plate. The VIN plate requirement apparently only applies to cars not campervans.

As mentioned in the article above, if the van has been modified in any way, it would be recommended that you have it re-weighed to make sure that you don’t exceed any towing limits.

The DoT can be contacted on 0300 330 3000.

So.. we can safely ignore Mazda saying not to tow with it.....? Yet it mentions towing limits for which the Bongo has no official limit...

It's just such a minefield when it comes to towing these days...

[Ian]

Thanks for the update from Lifesure. I read that as saying that, if you are insured with Lifesure, you are OK to use a Bongo for towing as long as it is registered as a Motorcaravan on your log book, but it's not OK if you are registered as an 8 seater motor vehicle.

[teenmal]

Thanks for the update from Lifesure. I read that as saying that, if you are insured with Lifesure, you are OK to use a Bongo for towing as long as it is registered as a Motorcaravan on your log book, but it's not OK if you are registered as an 8 seater motor vehicle.

Thank goodness that LIFESURE are NOT negotiating BREXIT ……….You can ( according to that statement ) take them with a pinch of Salt.

This is a serious safety matter, regarding Vehicle design Structural matters, if the Man from Mazda say NO then it means NO. Irrespective if your vehicle is registered as a Motorcaravan or an 8 seater or ice cream van , the structural design is the same for all.

And to be honest about the towing with these old vehicles , as has been pointed out in the past some are structural unsafe .

PS maybe Lifesure should be asked to explain WHY their comment , other than a sales pitch.


Take extra Care.