Interior Rustproofing and Insulation

[Alan2016]

This post follows on from a bunch of others and I thought I'd try to consolidate it a bit here. Basically I want to insulate my van and at the same time try to prevent it rusting from the inside out. Having just returned from a 3 day trip to the lakes I thought I'd start by removing one of the interior panels and taking a look. Having done that I started to worry about how big a job I was taking on and decided to retreat inside and write a post for a bit of reassurance .

This is what I see with the panel removed (hopefully the photos work as I've just started playing with Google Photos)


The black stuff is thick oily gloop that I can scratch off with a fingernail so I am guessing it is waxoyl? The original wheel arch was rusty and replaced by the dealer back in July when I bought the van so I am guessing he sprayed some waxoyl in after replacing that arch?


Looking down inside I see this. The left-hand side of the photo is the outer body of the van and the right-hand is the wheel arch. You can see a weld at the bottom where the new arch was presumably attached.


So what I need to do now is try to make sure no new rust grows. As part of this I have also considered insulating the van to help fight future condensation. Bongolia has spent a lot of time detailing his process here and here. The basic process is to kill existing rust with Fertan, treat these areas with zinc paint, glue in some insulation and the wax what is left. Having finally taken the panel off so I can see what a Bongo looks like under the skin I have a few questions before I start...

1) What is the best thing to do with the existing weld? Should I just leave it as is or remove the waxoyl currently there and apply something else over the weld? I have read about epoxy primers and seam sealant but have no idea if this is the sort of thing I should consider?

2) It isn't really clear from the photos but there seems to be a gap where the inner wheel arch descends at about where the weld is on the outside panel. So the outside of the van comes down, has the weld in it, and goes down a bit further. From the inside of the van the wheel arch is curving over and descending and I expected it to eventually just meet up with the outside of the van. Instead it seems to stop short, at least in places. Is this normal or fallout from the arch repair? I am a bit unsure as to how to treat this area or how I would be able to get any Fetran or wax into it.

3) With the Fertan do I just spray it everywhere or am I looking just for places with visible rust? There are obviously a lot of areas I can't see (e.g. inside pillars etc) so should I be spraying in these? After 3 days of camping the main area shown in the first picture above is quite dry but if I put a hand up the pillar at the rear of the van (i.e. the left side of the first picture above) I can feel quite a lot of condensation in there.

4) When waxing do I need to get everywhere I can? All I am trying to do is put the breaks on likely rust, not necessarily ensure that I can leave the Bongo to any grandchildren that may arrive 30 years down the line . For example do I need to worry about the roof areas above the windows or is most rust limited to the lower wheel-arch areas? Alternatively, given that I have the panels off would it be stupid not to remove the blinds etc to allow me to do the higher areas as well.

5) When it comes to applying wax, I don't have a compressor but could hire one. Some people also seem to have used garden sprayers with reasonable success. There also seems to be a dinitrol cavity wax in a spray can that you can get a "wand" for though I'm not sure if it will be up to much or just a waste of money. I assume dinitrol would be a suitable alternative to waxoyl? The same people also do a cordless sprayer which sounds like it might be OK for thinner waxes though perhaps no better than a garden sprayer. Does anyone have any thoughts on these options? I don't have a driveway so will need to do all work on the (very quiet) street outside the house.

Any advice on the above would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks so much

Alan

[Bongolia]

Hi Alan
(1) I think it too difficult to remove the wax now to treat the weld. The chances of you being able to get it clean enough to allow proper adhesion are not good . So I would just freshen the area with a dilute wax.
(2) Not sure I understand this entirely but I think what you describe is normal.
(3) The pillar you have the condensation in is used as an exhaust for the interior air moving through the van as best as can work out. So moisture here would be normal.
(4) I would say to be safe, everywhere! The blinds can stay in place you will need to remove the plastic trim above them to allow access to the roof outer skin and screen pillars.
Waxes are available in clear too so this would be better in the interior in case of any mishaps.
Is it an ATF?
(5) You should hire or buy a proper cavity gun. The lances will allow access to areas the other setup wouldn't and you can be more confident that the waxes are getting spread evenly too.
Looking at the image of your waxed panel it would seem the operator was a lousy shot !
This sort of thing would be avoided with the right kit allowing you to place the treatment accurately where it is needed and avoid waste and mess.
THis was copied from the 4WD refurb thread and shows the equipment I use, the compressor is not shown.

Extract:
Equipment and materials used in the process.
The tall spray gun can used for a variety of tasks like water wash out, applying Fertan, paint spraying ,waxing etc.It comes with three attachments and a spray gun type nozzle for large areas and zincing and two lances one 360 deg pattern and the other 360 and straight ahead.
Something like this is an essential piece of kit if you want to get into the blind boxes and nooks and crannies.
The sealant is Tiger PU sealer, silicon sealer is not a good idea as it lets go after a while and the PU can be used as an adhesive too.

https://goo.gl/photos/3JSGmobKPhCorGwQA

[Alan2016]

Thanks Bongolia. Yes it is an AFT. I can't see any signs of rust anywhere so far though obviously the arches have rusted in the past. The rest looks pretty good but I think the van has only been in the country for 18 months.

Do I spray the Fertan everywhere as well?

I'll have a look for some guns and see if the budget will allow as with the need to hire a compressor it might be getting a bit too pricey. The aerosol cans seem to get a surprisingly good review on Amazon so I may need to limit myself to that and use a garden sprayer to get the fertan in if that needs injecting everywhere as well.

If I go the gun route would I need something like this or could I get away with this cheaper option?

Thanks

[Bongolia]

The rusting starts in the areas you cannot see like internal box section of the screen pillars, roof subframe internal sill sections and so on. Unless you are using an endoscope it is well nigh impossible to asses the extent of this hidden corrosion.

The Fertan requires washing out after it has been in the sections for 24 hours or so and will be messy on a public roadway you may upset a few neighbors along the way as it washes out black.
As using the Fertan is messy you may want to consider leaving this part of the process given that you will have to carry on living there.

Using aerosol cans is not going to get you the coverage you need and would work out expensive in the long run. Those you have linked to are 38.00 for 2 litres. The pressure is not great enough to give a wide dispersal, the tubing is not rigid enough to feed past obstructions you will find in the box sections nor do they have sufficient length.

To do the whole van you would need around 7.50 wax and 3 ltrs Fertan this would include main chassis box sections too.
When you use the compressed air type it will create a thick mist so making for better coverage of the internal sections and is more economical in product use.
The gun I would recommend is the one in the image. We have been using this make of gun for a number of years. It has good lance length (2),a choice of dispersal tips with quick change couplings and also a spray gun cap so you can cover large flat areas very quickly, more important the tubing is around 9mm whereas the schutz gun tubing is bigger and the Seeley gun lances appear quite short.
The cost of the gun we use is around 70.00 plus VAT.

When you finished with the gun you would be able to recoup some of its cost by selling on an auction site.
If you PM me I will give you the place we buy our supplies from. They are post free and next day.

[Bongolia]

Alan there is a post on 4WD refurb that may answer your question about rear arches.

[Alan2016]

Nice one, thanks!

[Alan2016]

Sorry to resurrect an old thread but just a quick query on this

Hi Alan
(3) The pillar you have the condensation in is used as an exhaust for the interior air moving through the van as best as can work out. So moisture here would be normal.

If the pillar is used as a chimney should I avoid filling this with wool insulation?

Thanks

Alan

[Bongolia]

Personally I would just insulate with bubble under the trim around there.
How is it going have you made a start now?

[Alan2016]

Sounds sensible. Made a bit of a start today but I think I really need to wait for some warmer weather. Bit anxious that I will break clips removing the panels with the weather cool. I do have an oil filled heater that I could put inside the van but don't know how much of a difference that would make.