2.0 petrol cold start problem

[Manxdreamer]

Hi, I'm after a bit of advice on starting issues with my 2.0 petrol Bongo. The problem started suddenly a couple of months ago when the engine cut out a couple of minutes after setting off. I couldn't get it to restart for a while - turned over but never fired. I walked home to get some phone numbers for recovery, and had another go at starting it when I returned. Eventually it fired occasionally, I kept the throttle on the floor and churning the starter 'till it lwould just about keep going, but with the revs rising & falling. The fluctuation in revs was very sudden, more like an ignition issue than fuelling - well it would be with carbs, but I don't know if efi can produce this kind of instant off/on? Anyway, with my foot still on the floor, after a few minutes, the revs went up and stayed up. And that was it, back to normal & I drove home ok. The next morning it wouldn't start until I'd gone through this procedure again, then it ran fine, so I took it to my usual garage & left it with them. They said the diagnostic port was calling up the mass airflow sensor. Also one of the ht leads was tracking slightly. I had to order the maf from Japan which took 4 weeks. They also replaced all the ht leads, the rotor arm & distributer cap. When we picked it up, we drove it all day without a problem, but the next day it started ok, but kept stalling when I tried to rev it until it had warmed up a bit, then it was ok the rest of the day. Next time I used it, it started & ran ok. A few days later I tried to start it & was back to the not starting then fluctuating revs scenario. Once warmed up, it again ran fine for the rest of the day. Obviously, the fault is still there, and I'm about a grand down so far. I was going to scrap it rather than keep throwing money at it, but it's in very tidy condition & it's just what we want (when it's running!). It's our only car though, so I need to sort something out. Any ideas on what it could be?

Thanks, Ian

[scootmonkee]

Hello

First, I really must stress that I am no mechanic, so this is offered purely as something to consider.

Your problem sounds exactly like the symptoms I used to experience with a motorbike I had when I was younger. I only ever had the problem at this time of year (winter) and then only on cold or misty days, with moisture in the air (rather than pure freezing, 'dry' days). More often than not, I had only rode a short distance before parking-up, coming back to the bike when it was cold again.

It would not start without leg-breaking repeated pumping and then, when it did, would be jumpy and coughed and died frequently, after moving off, mid-ride, until it suddenly decided it was happy.

I finally took to spraying a moisture repellent into the cap of the spark plug on iffy days (or when the symptoms returned) and that cured it every time - it would start and would not cough, splutter and die after pulling away. For me, for that machine, at that time of year, it was simply moisture forming in the spark plug caps.

I really hope it is something as simple as that for you.

Good luck to you.

[Bongolia]

Hi and welcome.
A few Q`s
Where are you based?
Is there a Bongo fluent garage within striking distance?
Was the MAF a genuine Mazda one ?
What was the cost?
Is driveability/performance affected once it clears?
So best advice is a Bongo fluent garage.
However you could get back to the garage and tell them that the issue is still there ask them to rescan the Bongo.
Note down the codes then clear them. Use the vehicle until the fault shows itself then get them to scan it again and see if they match. It would be helpful if they could give you a 4 gas reading from cold and hot.
I would think as you have followed their advice then I could see no reason to charge you much for this service.
Post the codes on here if you go down this route.

I have to say there could be lots faults that would give the symptoms you describe.
You said "but I don't know if efi can produce this kind of instant off/on? Yes it can and more so.
Given the work already carried out and assuming the garage have checked all connections etc. I would be looking at fuel delivery and ducting, a split here would flag a MAF fault, as your issue seems to be more when cold starting I would be looking at the Coolant Temperature Sensor (CTS) and O2 sensor also.
A wrong signal here may tell the ECU the engine is hot and therefore deliver an inadequate fuel supply when cold,when the engine warms the problem goes away.
Keep us posted.

[teenmal]

Don't mess with it, take the vehicle back to the garage/mechanic. The last thing you want to do try and fix it yourself after spending nearly a GRAND, if the garage / mechanic find that you have been tinkering with it they might wash their hands of the problem.

[Manxdreamer]

Thanks for your replies & don't worry teenmal, I won't be touching it - I wouldn't know where to start!
Bongolia, I'm in the Isle of Man & the garage is bongo friendly, has worked on them a bit, & has the diagnostic equipment to plug in, which is as good as it gets here. I've been back & he'll have another look foc. The maf was a Mazda item, not sure you want to know the price, but it accounted for 3/4 of the total bill! . Once it's warmed up, it drives fine & restarts ok even if left a few hours. I'll pass on your suggestions when I drop it off next week & let you know how it goes. Thanks again

[Bongolia]

Hence the name.
Worked there in the 80`s spraying coatings. Our team painted the lighthouse, radio station off a triple 20 ladder (scarey) and a lady member of The House of Keys cottage and a few of her neighbors cars too.
Loved it, took around 6 months in all told,stayed in a B&B on the prom just along from the Eagle pub I think it was called in Douglas.

Anyhow I dug up this link from an old post of mine, it may be worth having at look on yours, It also gave a AFM fault. Didn't present the same issues as yours though.
http://igmaynard.co.uk/bongo/forum/view ... 29#p681829

Seeing the bill total made me wonder if it was a Mazda unit, they are expensive aint they though!
Pattern electrical MAFs are notoriously unreliable hence the question.
Good luck and I hope it turns out to be a cheap fix this time.

P.S.
Can you free camp in IOM as you can in Scotland?

[Manxdreamer]

Yes, can't believe I paid £750 for a lump of plastic & a bit of wire, especially as it didn't fix the fault! To be fair, the old one looked pretty knackered. Thanks for you suggestions. I've ordered a temperature sender, less than £20, so worth a try.
Free camping in the IoM ? I've know there's quite a bit of 'urban' free camping, especially when there's bike racing. A few use the harbours, where there's usually loos, power & sometimes the luxury of showers. I also chatted to a couple this year who parked up on Laxey prom during TT & said it was ok. Not sure about byelaws etc in the countryside, but I'm sure nobody would bother you, there are picnic areas & country laybys but the only 'No Overnight Parking' sign I've seen is on Fenella beach car park in Peel.

[Bongolia]

Just to clarify,its a Coolant Temperature Sensor for engine management you have ordered and not a coolant temp sender for the temp gauge ?

[Manxdreamer]

I've got both now! I ordered the 2 pin one, but they sent a single pin - a picking error, the delivey note said 2 pin. I rang them & they sent the correct one foc & told me to keep the other - easy & friendly aftersales service. I might have a go at fitting it myself if I can find where it goes, pointers welcome
Back on the subject of wild camping on the Isle of Man, I remembered this after my last post. When I first joined BF, 4 years or so ago, there was an article in the magazine from a couple who came here wild camping with their teenage children. Don't know if these are still available in an archive somewhare, but it was a good article.

[Bongolia]

Sorry I missed this post.
The coolant temp sensor is at the front below the top hose spigot and the gauge sender is above it, a single wire spade terminal.
I thought your mex was going to do this?
It would be better to let him do it as the sender one can be siezed in and it may snap.

[Manxdreamer]

Yes, I dropped the sensor off with him a few days ago. Not heard anything since, but I don't like to pester him as he's working on it when he's not busy. We're resigned to the long haul & have bought a cheap run around in the meantime. I'll keep you posted......

[Manxdreamer]

The garage now think it's the coil that's at fault. Apparently it's arcing to the distributor body on first startup when the engine is cold & damp. I've tried to source a replacement, but I'm told there are 2 types of distributor for the 2.0, one having the coil inside the distributor body, and this is the version I have. My only option seems to be to replace the complete distributor which will cost me about 700 quid . If I look for one from a breakers, how do I tell if it's the correct type with the coil inside? I'm told I can't use the separate coil instead, anyone got any other ideas?

[Bongolia]

You need to get the number off of the old distributor it will be on the side.
Put the number up on here.
Perhaps a call to Ian may help as he would know of any variants.
Some distributor internal parts are available depends on number/make.
How does he know its arcing inside the cap?

[Manxdreamer]

Thanks for the reply. I'll go up tomorrow & get that part number. I think he could see the burn marks,, but I'll check, I was outside with a bit of background noise when I took the call. I was too late to catch Ian, I'll try again when I've got the part number.

[Bongolia]

OK.
There is always Bongo Spares and other breakers listed on this site if you need to go secondhand.
Thats the route I would take.