Starting problems

maxmataz · Post by **maxmataz** » Wed Oct 07, 2015 9:15 am

This started about a year ago but wasn't all the time. Over time it has got worse.

After a longish drive it doesn't want to start, it turns over with gumption but does not want to fire up, whereas on a cold start starts on first turn. It will eventually go.

eg It has sat on the drive for about 10days fires up immediately take it to the shop about 17km a way, get a few bits and then it doesn't want to start but eventually does, I may then make a short journey to chemist where it may fire up immediately or may not again

Two days ago after a long journey to MOT centre it failed to start, but MOT man only let it turn over once maybe twice before switching off and trying again and this ended up with nothing, no turning over just click, but he had let it sit there with lights on for 10mins, it started immediately on a jump start, Now I had to get my bank card from the Bank so had to turn it off and restart and it turned over for awhile before firing up. So I drive home, at home I did a voltage test 12.9V
The next morning I turned it over and it didn't start immediately but didn't take as long as when it's done a longish trip (about half)
Now this morning Two days later and having not been anywhere It turned over immediately.

previously I had noticed the hiss on the fuel cap so had left this loose so as not to cause a vacuum and I thought I had cracked it as it started well with only a small amount of turning over occasionally but we are now back that not making any difference.

I have cleaned out the banjo filter

I may get another Battery but surely a naff battery would show up after sitting on the drive for 10days, sometimes 2 weeks
and actually that's when there are no problems

any clues? thinking fuel problem maybe?

wonkanoby · Post by **wonkanoby** » Wed Oct 07, 2015 9:26 am

12.9v running? or engine of

have you done glowplugs

maxmataz · Post by **maxmataz** » Wed Oct 07, 2015 9:32 am

Engine off
not done glow plugs but on my list but thought that they played up more on a cold start & this is when it seems good

mikeonb4c · Post by **mikeonb4c** » Wed Oct 07, 2015 10:02 am

Doesn't sound like glowplugs. Is it smoking at all?

maxmataz · Post by **maxmataz** » Wed Oct 07, 2015 10:13 am

No not noticed any smoke and I usually start it and let it idle then go around the back of it to open the Gates and not noticed any whilst driving except a little puff of black when I engaged the Turbo once, well so I'm told but thought that was normal

mikeonb4c · Post by **mikeonb4c** » Wed Oct 07, 2015 10:17 am

maxmataz wrote:No not noticed any smoke and I usually start it and let it idle then go around the back of it to open the Gates and not noticed any whilst driving except a little puff of black when I engaged the Turbo once, well so I'm told but thought that was normal

Sounds a bit like the fuelling system. How old is the bongo, what mileage etc. Any sign of wetness around the fuel pump? When was fuel filter last changed? Has banjo filter been checked and cleaned? Have you tried running with the tank filler cap off? Etc.

maxmataz · Post by **maxmataz** » Wed Oct 07, 2015 10:23 am

Sorry mean't to say at beginning It's a 1998 2.5tdi 164,000 km have checked & cleaned the Banjo but not changed fuel filter - but will give that a go

I have loosened the Cap, seemed to be better initially but reverted back to be problematic even with a loose cap - do you think I should try with cap completely off

cmm303 · Post by **cmm303** » Wed Oct 07, 2015 10:29 am

maxmataz wrote:No not noticed any smoke and I usually start it and let it idle then go around the back of it to open the Gates and not noticed any whilst driving except a little puff of black when I engaged the Turbo once, well so I'm told but thought that was normal

I agree with your logic regarding glow plugs, cold vs hot start. However for reference, the smoke Mike probably means is whilst trying to start. It is shown well in the video (mp4) linked in the original post of this thread: http://www.igmaynard.co.uk/bongo/forum/ ... eo#p664247

Fuel filter change is cheap and obvious to try
Check for leaks around fuel pump
Random thought: sticking fuel cut-off valve?

maxmataz · Post by **maxmataz** » Wed Oct 07, 2015 10:33 am

There was no wetness around the fuel pump when I last looked a few months back, Is it best to check this After a run ???

cmm303 · Post by **cmm303** » Wed Oct 07, 2015 10:54 am

maxmataz wrote:There was no wetness around the fuel pump when I last looked a few months back, Is it best to check this After a run ???

Not normally necessary as diesel fuel leaks leave a trace that hangs around. A fuel pump leaks worst when idling (at least mine did) and usually dribbles onto the cover under the engine so may not show as drips on the ground.

maxmataz · Post by **maxmataz** » Wed Oct 07, 2015 11:04 am

Re the smoke, I did not notice this yesterday when the MOT man trying to start it and I was in a position to see it but if the next time it happens and I have someone with me I'll ask them to look

Thanks for replies - I'll check out what has been suggested and report back

mikeonb4c · Post by **mikeonb4c** » Wed Oct 07, 2015 11:34 am

maxmataz wrote:Re the smoke, I did not notice this yesterday when the MOT man trying to start it and I was in a position to see it but if the next time it happens and I have someone with me I'll ask them to look

Thanks for replies - I'll check out what has been suggested and report back

All you can do is try and eliminate possible causes, starting with the cheapest. Try with filler cap off completely, just in case. Fuel filter change is an obvious one. Air being pulled into fuel feed is a possible (leaking pumps can I believe cause air to be drawn in as well/ instead of fuel leaking out). Incidentally, you say it only clicked when the garage turned the key. Are you saying the starter motor didn't even turn over, as that points to a separate issue, caused either by starter motor getting dodgy or maybe by a starter battery problem (when its under load). The latter seems unlikely though as that should be worst when starting from cold unless of course it is the sheer amount of having to turn over a reluctant to start engine that is draining it.

I assume the engine is ticking over, revving and pulling OK?

maxmataz · Post by **maxmataz** » Wed Oct 07, 2015 1:11 pm

I will start with fuel filter as that is what I was going to do a few months back but alas I have memory anomalies

what happened yesterday was a first, however the lights were on full without the Bongo running and I say 10 mins but my have been longer & he did have something in the 12v slot, and yes sounded like starter motor BUT this maybe a one off thingy it started absolutely immediately with a jump start from a small car just ticking over, It may very well be the Battery is no longer as good as used to be and failing under load but here again I would expect this to show up more when the engine is cold and not been run for awhile, but here again I may very well treat the Bongo (Dessie) to a nice new Battery

mikeonb4c · Post by **mikeonb4c** » Wed Oct 07, 2015 1:35 pm

maxmataz wrote:I will start with fuel filter as that is what I was going to do a few months back but alas I have memory anomalies
what happened yesterday was a first, however the lights were on full without the Bongo running and I say 10 mins but my have been longer & he did have something in the 12v slot, and yes sounded like starter motor BUT this maybe a one off thingy it started absolutely immediately with a jump start from a small car just ticking over, It may very well be the Battery is no longer as good as used to be and failing under load but here again I would expect this to show up more when the engine is cold and not been run for awhile, but here again I may very well treat the Bongo (Dessie) to a nice new Battery

That all sounds good. Fuel filter needs doing anyway. Battery may need doing if its age is uncertain. And it is being worked hard given the poor starting characteristics. If you do get a new starter battery, try and get a cranking power (CCA). Can't remember the CCA of mine but its a 95AmpHr one. You can get good prices online - havea search on here for Bosch as Simon Jones has a deal he recommends especially. Good luck, keep us posted.

cmm303 · Post by **cmm303** » Wed Oct 07, 2015 1:47 pm

maxmataz wrote:I will start with fuel filter as that is what I was going to do a few months back but alas I have memory anomalies
what happened yesterday was a first, however the lights were on full without the Bongo running and I say 10 mins but my have been longer & he did have something in the 12v slot, and yes sounded like starter motor BUT this maybe a one off thingy it started absolutely immediately with a jump start from a small car just ticking over, It may very well be the Battery is no longer as good as used to be and failing under load but here again I would expect this to show up more when the engine is cold and not been run for awhile, but here again I may very well treat the Bongo (Dessie) to a nice new Battery

headlights? then personally I would not condemn the battery just yet and focus resources elsewhere for the root cause, but I'm super mean when it comes to batteries.

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