New to Bongonia, a steering question

[Tom_B]

I am a brand new Bongonaut of two days. Me and the Missus decided to get a vehicle we could go away in and after looking at some very expensive VW vans which we thought about converting we followed the bright light of Bongernomics. We found a 1996 2.5 AFT which while looking a little tired on the inside, had a good service history, and two owners from import from Japan where it had lived until 2007 which I understand is unusual for Japanese cars to be kept on the road so long?

The previous owner seemed like a straight kind of fellow and the Bongo seemed like a straight kind of van. During good long test drive around some lumpy London streets the Bongo didn't rattle or squeak and no bangs or knocks from the suspension. The service history had the drop links replaced a few years ago.

Everything works (apart from the A/c) there is a fault on the LHS central locking but I think its wiring or possibly the actuating motor - we will see.

So here is my tech question - I live near York so I had a four hour drive to get acquainted with the Bongo - she drives straight and true with no more wander than you would expect on a 20 year old van.

The one concerning thing was on the motorway when I was accelerating up a slight incline from about 60 to 70 there was a vibration/shake/shudder through the steering. It didn't feel like a wheel balance vibration because it wasn't consistent. The Bongo has same size wheels all round (its a AWD) 215/70/R15s the front set are worn close to their 1.6 mm limit and the rear set have much more meat on them. I am wondering if the vibration is linked to the 4WD viscous transfer boxes somehow because of the different rolling circumferences. ( I have read the pages on tyre sizes etc - a little knowledge is always a dangerous thing...)

(I bought a Audi A4 a couple of years ago and it had different tyres front and rear and it had a funny vibration at speed - steering geometry checked, wheels balanced etc in the end the vibration disappeared when I bought a complete set of tyres.)

This month I would prefer not to shell out £300 on a new set of tyres but if the collective wisdom said that was the way forward then I would do that (probs waiting until next month to do that)

Can I get away with two new tyres or is this a false economy? Does the hive mind have a view on the vibration/shudder/shake when under power?

Can I ask a paintwork related q as well? there are a few pin prick type rust spots on the body work - whats the best way to sort hese out?

many thanks,

Tom

[sotal]

I get a bit of vibration too between 60 and 70mph, once I get to 70mph it is as smooth as silk and 60mph is fine too but inbetween those speeds I get quite a bit of vibration through the steering wheel.

I just put it down to the wheels/tyres being slightly out of balance.

Mine has a matching set of new tyres (same size) all round. Mine is a 2.5TD AWD 1999.

Mine was in Japan until 2013 - so 14 years of it's 16 years. So 2007 for yours doesn't sound unusual.

Wiring in the door hinges is the most common fault, and easy to check for cracks and splits visually.

[g8dhe]

Welcome!
Plenty of people run the same 215 size tyres all the way round, and the vibration problem is well reported, normally balancing or full alignment cures the problem, it did on our 2wd V6.

[Simon Jones]

If they are aftermarket wheels, you may need 'spigot rings' to ensure they are centralised on the hub.

[dave_aber]

Balance and/or spigot rings as mentioned above are likely to be the culprit.

You may be able to rule out the tyres by swapping fronts to rears and see if the symptoms change?

Currently smaller fronts will mean that the VC is trying to slow them down as they are pushed round quicker than the rears to keep up with the road speed. With the slightly larger tyres on the front, the rears will rotate faster for a given road speed, so the fronts will be affected in the opposite way by the VC trying to speed them up.

Also worth checking the play in the lower balljoints.

I had both sides wear out on mine, and the vibration which felt just like an out of balance wheel was usually started when cornering, and the weight was coming off the inside front wheel. Could be made worse by accelerating mid bend, and I 'got the knack' of making it stop with a subtle tap on the brakes.

When I got round to looking into the front suspension, the balljoints were quite worn.

Officially, you can't change them individually, you need to swap over the whole front lower arm, which is pricey. You can buy joints, and they press in / out easily enough (with the arm removed) but my experience was that the aftermarket joints I used didn't last long.

A pair of arms from the club shop although also pattern ones have lasted much longer, and no signs of wear.

[Tom_B]

thanks for suggestions - I think I'll get the tracking checked first - Kwik fit do the hunter 4 wheel check and don't charge if there is no problem.

I noticed today that the front tyres are wearing on the outside of the tyre much faster than the rest of the tyre - is that typical for Bongos?

[Bongoplod]

thanks for suggestions - I think I'll get the tracking checked first - Kwik fit do the hunter 4 wheel check and don't charge if there is no problem.

I noticed today that the front tyres are wearing on the outside of the tyre much faster than the rest of the tyre - is that typical for Bongos?

No,any wear should be even

Brian

[dave_aber]

I noticed today that the front tyres are wearing on the outside of the tyre much faster than the rest of the tyre - is that typical for Bongos?

Unusual - Before you get the alignment checked, have the lower balljoints checked - not just visually, but with a pry bar to see if there is play in them.

[mikeonb4c]

thanks for suggestions - I think I'll get the tracking checked first - Kwik fit do the hunter 4 wheel check and don't charge if there is no problem.

I noticed today that the front tyres are wearing on the outside of the tyre much faster than the rest of the tyre - is that typical for Bongos?

One of my front tyres was wearing more on the inside,so I had tracking checked and adjusted. Historically though, my Bongo has been excellent at even tyre wear. Mine's a 2WD which may be relevant. Currently I'm getting slightly vibration through the steering wheel between 65-70, despite having had wheel balance done at a large national tyre chain. However, when the 4 tyres were fitted and balanced by a small local garage 2 years ago the Bongo had absolutely no vibration problem at all. I'm left thinking that you have to be conscientious / accurate when balancing Bongo wheels, and maybe some garages are better at that than others. Next time I shall stress to whoever does it that they need to take special care. Properly balanced and set up, a Bongo can go down the road at speed very nicely, with no vibration. But they are a bit fussy on set up I suspect.

[g8dhe]

Surely road conditions i.e. potholes will also have an effect on wheel alignment, or have we all come to accept the state of the roads?
Personally I suspect it might be necessary to have the alignment checked much more regularly than we have had to do in the past!

[mikeonb4c]

Surely road conditions i.e. potholes will also have an effect on wheel alignment, or have we all come to accept the state of the roads?
Personally I suspect it might be necessary to have the alignment checked much more regularly than we have had to do in the past!

Sadly, that is very true. I have to say though that the national tyre place I went to was pushing 6 monthly tracking checks, which really seemed a bit excessive. Also, one of my wheel trims dropped off after their work and I ended up having to buy 4 trims. The front wheels still have a vibration, so I'm suspicious of how conscientiously they did that job. And I can only hope they adjusted the tracking correctly(I actually had a 4 wheel alignment check done but they only found tracking needed adjusting - I wondered if they even quite understood the BF factsheet I gave them!).

[windywatson]

If you go by the book, the van should have different size tyres on the front to the rear. As this was in the design of the vehicle it makes sense that Mazda would have factored this in with the design of the gear box. Therefore whilst owners are running around with same size all round & getting away with it. Surely it makes sense to stick with what is recommended. By running with the same size all round are you not actually introducing a minor problem for the gear box to deal with. Could this be the actual reason why some are experiencing some minor imbalance type of symptom?

Thought I'd throw that out there for discussion. Doesn't effect me as only 2 wheel drive.

Cheers

[dave_aber]

By running with the same size all round are you not actually introducing a minor problem for the gear box to deal with?

The recommended sizes although different, actually have the same overall rolling radius, so you can happily swap to all-4-the-same configuration without inducing a problem which is outside of the design specification.