V6 Head Gasket, Coolant loss, Idling

[Mrs Feynmans Bongos]

I'm still desperate for wise advice, since news below, following on from my earlier topics:
Coolant loss: http://igmaynard.co.uk/bongo/forum/view ... =3&t=69137
Idling issue, cuts-out: http://igmaynard.co.uk/bongo/forum/view ... =3&t=68973

MO'S MOTORS (Fenstanton) have now done a "Block Test", with something that "changes colour if it detects exhaust gases", which it did. So they reckon Head Gasket gone, but do not have tooling to remove/reinstate the "Timing Chain" they say it has, although they could do a Cambelt.

ANDY'S IMPORTS (Honingham), who sold me it (April 2013, 65k miles) says that:
- in 15 years, he has never had a Head Gasket fail on a V6, only on Diesels
- all V6's definitely have a Cambelt, he replaced mine in 4/13+wrote on cowl, not a "Timing Chain"
- he advises replace the Radiator (pattern ones are fine, genuine Mazda not necessary), reassess.

Grateful for advice on a plan of attack, tho' I am wobbling/wondering whether to cut my losses
Eg are block tests reliable on older vehicles, that might leak a bit of fumes but somewhere benign?
Or maybe Head Gasket leak was causing the (earlier) Idling issue? Try new Radiator first?

[Mrs Feynmans Bongos]

MO's mechanic kindly rang me:
- they cannot read ECU FAULT CODES, as they can't plug into the non-UK diagnostic port (not DL-16)
- (if I understood this) they don't have tools to hold-in-sync/reinstate 4 belts that run off Cambelt
- it is misfiring slightly, consistent with coolant in cylinders

They are going with advice kindly given by ALLAN (Plymouth): If the radiator has failed, replace radiator first (a non-Mazda ~£100 should be fine), and see if it bleeds properly. This will help prove any Head Gasket issue.

Fury folk?

[g8dhe]

To be honest the descriptions there giving you doesn't lead me to think that have a clue about the engine!
Error codes can be read here http://www.philmcfadden.co.uk/MazdaDiagnosticBox.htm but I think I would looking for another garage to be honest!

[cmm303]

very nervous of a professional who is only happy changing a radiator.

[Mrs Feynmans Bongos]

Thanks for replies.
Novice (me) may have misunderstood what John@MO's is saying (he has a V6 Vectra himself )
I hope I'm not going to have to get it recovered elsewhere, eg back to ANDY'S.

Assuming MO's quote a few £'00 to replace RADIATOR, that sounds ok as next move ie not a waste?

[cmm303]

Choices are looking thin!! Your earlier (traumatic ) thread suggests the rad is shot. Get them to test it before ordering replacement perhaps? Then after fitting, bleeding it .... somehow you have to be confident that they will do it properly. With more work likely I would think twice about putting antifreeze in at this stage but look for advice on here as it may not be too good for it.

Your best hope is that this fixes it enough to drive it to a garage that can do the rest of the work. Else your options are a tow (prop shaft removed) or flatbed. It may not be as expensive as you think and the garage selected to do the work might be able to arrange.

[mikeWalsall]

Not my car to say what you should do .. only maybe what I would do if it was ..

The V6 is very reliable and head / gasket issues are quite rare ...

As the mechanic 'thinks' it is an head gasket you have to realise there are two heads and gaskets .. with the all the costs involved .. labour .. skimming two alloy heads .. two gasket sets it would be a bill running into several hundred pounds .. Personally I would take a 'cheapo' option first by trying something like Kseal (a gasket / head sealer) ..

I have to confess that I have never used it .. I am just going of info on various forums (like the TEOC) to how good it is doing it's job .. my reasoning being .. IF .. it is head / gasket issue then the Kseal should quickly show a dramatic improvement in how the engine is running ..

Engine runs good .. bite the bullet and get the job done .. no improvement .. it's cost a tenner or so to prove a point ..

[windywatson]

Hi, I have 2 V6 bongos, both had cambelt changes without any major traumas. The V6 does have a lot of timming marks to get lined up when fitting new belts. But to be honest any good mechanic with plenty of experiance will always find work arounds to help keep drive pulleys etc in place whilst fitting belts. There are plenty of V6's about and all will have had cambelt changes done at time of import, so plenty of mechanics managing to get the job done.
Whats the latest, fixed yet?

[Diplomat]

There are plenty of V6's about and all will have had cambelt changes done at time of import

Nice thought.


Frank

[Simon Jones]

Unless you get a proper invoice to prove the cambelt was changed, it's safest to assume it has not been replaced. A very well known Bongo importer in the Dorset area includes cambelt change on the list of optional extras like Waxoyling that you can choose to pay for when ordering a Bongo. When I bought mine from the previous owner, it came with the checklist and cambelt and Waxoyl were two important options that she had not ticked to have done.

[Mrs Feynmans Bongos]

UPDATE:
- MO's were unable to source a Radiator from their usual supplier, so kindly did not charge me at all.
(Be advised my experience is they seem comfortable only with routine servicing of Bongos these days?)

- My Bongo was recovered by OUTBACK AUTOS (Kings Lynn) a week later, having found no proven specialist closer.
Steve has done mainly diesel Bongos for years, but knows Allan (Plymouth) so is consulting him about my V6.

- Steve has replaced the Radiator (in-stock), but gets nothing trying to read fault codes with his "WLT" machine ie diesels

- Compression is low on no.4, sounds tappy when cold but not warm, is also misfiring (but not specific to one cylinder)

- Next move is to check CAMBELT (in case misfiring on jump due to missing teeth)+advise. If necessary I will replace Belt
(also Pulleys, Tensioner if poor), although Andy's Imports wrote in footwell "Cambelt 20/3/13, 105k", only 6000km ago!

- If Cambelt looks fine or is replaced yet it still fails compression and another sniff, we will of course consider the HEAD.

- Steve agrees Head/Gasket sealer may be worth a cheap try: any experience/advice with KSEAL, STEEL SEAL or similar?

- If that fails or perhaps in any case, BOTH Heads will be crack-tested, replace either/both that fail, else skim/reinstate.
Unless the money runs out ...

Every posting appreciated, folks! I need the sympathy right now

[Bob]

Let's hope the bill isn't TOO bad.

This is rotten luck for you.

[mikeWalsall]

Just my own personal feelings .. I am not a mechanic .. but I have never let any engine, from a moped up to a V8 get the better of me .. but I must say I am a bit confused to why a normal mechanic would be having problems in sorting out issues with old technology engines ..

After all the Mazda V6 is a very basic design .. compared to today's engines it's nothing high tech mechanically .. or as enough computer control to put a man on the moon ..

To be honest if he can't source something as simple as a radiator, .. needs a second opinion on using Steel seal .. Kseal etc:

I feel he is not / does not want to try to hard in sussing out the problems anyway .. seems more like a 'pass the buck' kinda guy .. let some one get down and dirty ..

[helen&tony]

Hi
Mike's right...don't touch sealant. It's alright if you are on holiday abroad and there's no alternative, but considering that you'll have an everlasting job cleaning it out afterwards when the heads are changed. if it does prove that there's head damage, 'phone George at Bongospares, get a new engine, have the seals/ cambelt done while it's out, and keep the old one for spares...it'll prove cheaper in the long run, and give many a year of service!
Cheers
Helen

[mikeWalsall]

Maybe you read me wrong Helen .. reading through the post, the mechanic was of the opinion the radiator was shot and (he was having difficulties sourcing one) and so was the head / gasket .. which he believed was causing the problems .. but he had not confirmed 100% what was the actual problems are ..

If it is only the radiator then (for test purposes only) the engine should still start and run fine .. maybe get hot pretty quick though ..!!

I did say that although I had never used Kseal .. given the scenario posted above .. IF .. it is a blown head / gasket then some Steel seal ..Kseal .. Bars leak or what have you .. should cure the problem even if only as short term test ..

To me well worth a tenner to prove a point, and maybe pointing the mechanic in the right direction to what actually needs to be fixed long term .. and if needed for peace of mind .. could be flushed out when fitting the new rad.

But like I said I am not a mechanic ... if fact .. I have spent the last 50 years sorting out one horse power problems ..!!

Around 1981 ..