BONGO USING OIL

[bongogreenride]

Can anyone suggest why Mr Bongo diesel 2.5, started to use oil immediately after a cylinder head change? Yes, it is filled up to Max....
Nothing else done, except cylinder head.

It NEVERused oil prior to this change to head.

Now using about a pint in 120 miles.
Can a cylinder head improve performance , and so knacker up the rings etc? Just wondering .
No black, blue or otherwise exhaust smoke.
No leaks.
Total mystery

[Simon Jones]

Two thoughts: valve oil seals or the small tube that feeds oil to the head from the block may have a problem with the O-ring so oil is getting lost in no.1 cylinder. Of course there could be an external leak somewhere.

What does the garage have to say about it?

[Simon Jones]

Can you fill us in on what happened between 1st November:

Bongo has had a strip down, rebuild, and brand new head and all extras(sensors etc) from Bongo Fury. It has been checked and double checked for leaks etc. ALL is fine. NOTHING LEAKING.

BONGO IS NOW DRINKING OIL, 200 miles 1 pint.
The second hand Turbo from is making a squealing noise and whine. Like a plane setting off.
Only thing garage can think of is this turbo off an old Bongo is knackered and it is letting oil around the bearing and so we are burning oil.

There is NO black smoke coming out of the exhaust.
Rings are OK, as it would have been burning oil before the new head was fitted.

...and today?:

Nothing else done, except cylinder head.
It NEVERused oil prior to this change to head.

Now using about a pint in 120 miles.

[Simon Jones]

Thanks for the PM. So, the original turbo has been refitted which resolved the squealing issue so it appears that the turbo could be ruled out as being the cause. Options that spring to mind:

- Incorrect grade of oil has been used so it's getting out somehow (burn/leak). What make/type are you refilling with?

- As earlier post: the pipe that feeds oil to the head from the block could be at fault, or problems with one or more value oil seals. We know the head came from a reputable source so hopefully the seals will be up to scratch. I would expect blue smoke on start up, acceleration or overrun.

- Worn piston rings. Seems unlikely as you say, but what happened to require the head to be replaced in the first place? There may be something significant in the build up to the problem.

- External oil leak. There was someone on here recently with an oil leak from the head and it was traced to threaded plug (like a big grub screw) that was loose and allowing oil to escape.

- Damage caused while fitting new head. I had a head gasket go on my previous Bongo and the top tip I was given was to 'deck the block' which involves using very fine abrasive paper and a perfectly flat piece of granite or marble to effectively sand off any imperfections in the mating surface of the block. I was very careful to avoid getting any grit and metal into the cylinder bores by filling them with gaffer tape to attract any bits, and then finally using a heavy duty vacuum cleaner to suck out any remaining particles. Once reassembled, the cooling system was flushed out before refilling and the oil and filter was changed after a few miles of running to get any debris out of the system.

You can see in this picture some the metal filings that were produced in the process:


Just a thought, could there be some disturbance to the cyclinder bores while the engine was apart?

[teenmal]

When was the oil filter last changed.

[teenmal]

Got your PM....you need to check that the new filter is in fact fitted properly and the filter is not itself faulty.IE remove filter check seal / seams and mating surface etc,also make sure that the old seal is not (Still ) stuck to the block.

The leak may be going into the under tray and staying there until you are travelling,if so you will not see it spilling on the ground/road.


Thanks for the PM.

[bongogreenride]

Well folks, I am still none the wiser as to why mi 2.5 diesel bongo van is STILL using oil.
I am wondering if anyone has any ideas....????
For those that have been following the thread since November 2014, in a re-cap to ye all, it is as follows :-
Changed the cylinder head (garage did this, set everything etc), with all the relevant bits renewed last year (nov).
Oil changed and new filter, and I thought it was OK, but an overfill from the garage caused me to think it was sorted. It wasn`t, it just shut me up for a while, and stopped me visiting the garage with the same fault.
Now the oil is down to a normal full level, it is apparent that the engine is using oil, every trip and has been all the time, and is well below full each trip.
Taken to have emissions checked, it is not burning oil, no black smoke etc.
No visible oil leaks on engine...
Rings and pistons OK, and the engine NEVER used oil before the cylinder head was replaced.
So, the engine is putting the oil away somewhere.
Total mystery.. What do my forum friends say ??????????????????????????????????
If we can solve this, it will be a miracle !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Northern Bongolow]

if its not burning it then it must be chucking it out somewhere, has it got the under tray fitted still. it can be easier to spot leaks when its off.

are there spots of oil on the rear door or glass, this may show its coming out into the airflow when moving.

you could maybe remove the front timing belt cover, you may see oil running down the front of the engine out of the camshaft front seal, this usually shows around the head gasket line as the engine is tilted slightly backwards , or down the drivers side front of the engine behind the fuel pump.

at the lowest point on the bell housing there is a rubber grommet, is this showing signs of a leak, this could suggest that the rear crankshaft seal is leaking.
both of the above may not show signs of leaking until the engine is hot and the oil pressure is up to normal running pressures.

[bongogreenride]

Date 18th Feb

Van been into the garage yesterday for inspection re oil usage.
Checked out all the recommended factors.
No leakages of oil anywhere.
The gearbox is automatic and so garage chap booted it when out on test and puff of smoke could be seen from exhaust.
Garage said it must be the turbo, it is pushing oil through it. That is all it can be, they said???!!.
If it were rings etc, garage said, it would be doing it all the time, and would have been using oil before cylinder head was replaced.
This turbo is the original and did not use oil before cylinder head was replaced.
At a loss and confused.

[mikeonb4c]

If piston rings were compromised wouldn't crankcase pressurise and oil mist out through crankcase breather? This was the case with an old Morris 1000 of mine but maybe Bongo engine design is different.

[helen&tony]

Hi
Surely you should ask the garage to repair what they have done?. There must be some sort of implied warranty as to "fit for purpose" because it seems that if there was no oil loss before the job was done, and now there is, then they are obliged to repair it. If , on the other hand, another fault un-related to the job has occurred , then they should verify that they are able to repair the problem for a written quote.
Cheers
Helen

[Northern Bongolow]

If piston rings were compromised wouldn't crankcase pressurise and oil mist out through crankcase breather? This was the case with an old Morris 1000 of mine but maybe Bongo engine design is different.

no its just the same mike, it vents out through the pipe half way along the passy side of the rocker cover, the only difference is now more modern cars recirc it back into the air inlet side(at the rear of the head into the large black air pipe from the air filter) to be burned up, remove this pipe and see how much oily vapour is created.

ive taken mine off permenantly it just vents to sump level like the old minis did, it passes the mot ok.
now it burns clean air and doesnt crud up the air inlet manifold.

[mikeonb4c]

If piston rings were compromised wouldn't crankcase pressurise and oil mist out through crankcase breather? This was the case with an old Morris 1000 of mine but maybe Bongo engine design is different.

no its just the same mike, it vents out through the pipe half way along the passy side of the rocker cover, the only difference is now more modern cars recirc it back into the air inlet side(at the rear of the head into the large black air pipe from the air filter) to be burned up, remove this pipe and see how much oily vapour is created.

ive taken mine off permenantly it just vents to sump level like the old minis did, it passes the mot ok.
now it burns clean air and doesnt crud up the air inlet manifold.

Excellent Ady. In that case maybe the OP should take the pipe off and see if they get a lot of oil vapour coming out? Otherwise maybe it IS the turbo?

[Northern Bongolow]

you will get some oily vapour mike, its just how much, it should be a faint haze, but if the rings are bad or the stem seals worn then it could be quite a bit. maybe check along side another.

[bongogreenride]

Well, Bongo followers of vans that use oil. Here is the latest lowdown.
Just back from another test.Used oil after filling it, again 120 miles, quarter of oil.
Bongo been into garage now and they checked everything out for leaks, mist and rain and thunderstorms etc. Nothing..............
Henry Bongo is automatic, so G. man booted it, on their drive test and smoke came out of the exhaust. Never before seen. Certainly not when driving...
Garage man said, if it were rings seals etc it would be chucking it out all the time, not puffing out just when you boot.???????
Cylinder head done last year, new head and all the bits.
Van runs OK.
Although it did not use oil before cylinder head done in November last.
Just started doing it after everything put back together. So that is a mystery !!!!????
Verdict up to date, we return to the Turbo...
Although this turbo never used oil before November last when cylinder head done.
G.Man cleaned out the turbo with stuff, to do this job , don`t know if this has made gaps in the unit, seals etc and so causing a problem. Things can be too clean saga.
This is a real puzzle folks....????!!!!