V6 Self-inflicted Misery in Southern Spain!!

[markoos]

Hi Everyone

We took our beloved 2002 V6 across the channel and down to southern Spain 3 weeks ago, The Bongo performed perfect, never missed a beat, A/C fully on with the outside temperature hitting 36'c+, we were averaging 24.4 mpg with 2 adults and 2 children and a boot space of luggage, then, a moment of complete stupidity put an end to it all, i filled the tank with 50 litres of Diesel!

I didn’t start the car and we pushed it off the garage forecourt and i called Britannia Recovery, what i can only describe as excellent service a recovery truck was with us within 2 hours and our bongo was whisked away to be "pumped out".

The next day the Spanish garaged called to say they removed the Diesel, however, the car would now not start and there must be an issue elsewhere as there was no spark at the plug.

By the time i got to the garage, they have all but given up with the car, gave me a tool chest and told me to "have a look". Having called Adam at ADS in Bristol (Thank you so much!) i managed to track down that i didn’t have a spark at all and that i only have a 12v feed to the coil and no cranked earth. At this point i had to i have to make a decision to find an alternative method to get home.

Once again Britannia came in to their only and with a mixture of walking, taxi's, hire cars, ferry more taxis and another hire car, we got home leaving our Bongo in Spain for repatriation in the near future, i hope!

So, can anyone shed any light on what the issue may be and what provides the cranked earth to the coil pack, i fear that the issue is unrelated to my stupidity of feeding the Bongo the wrong fuel and have a niggling feeling that the recovery drive left the ignition on overnight.

The Bongo is fitted with an immobiliser, however, this completely kills the ignition circuit and nothing works.

If the cost to recover the Bongo back to the UK is, in the opinion of the insurance company more than the value of the car, they will not recover it back, i which case i will return and get the Bongo, hopefully, armed with the information and spare parts from the advice i get on here to get her up and running and back home in blighty.

Sorry for such a long winded post, i am never very good at getting to the point.

Thanks for any information offered, Mark

[Simon Jones]

Sorry to hear of your troubles. As it was running fine prior to the incident and it wasn't started with the diesel in, my feeling is that it's something that has failed or become disconnected while it was having the fuel pumped out, so hopefully something very simple.

Have you ruled out the distributor cap and rotor arm? I've got a spare cap, arm, coil and HT leads that you are welcome to borrow to try to eliminate those parts.

[mikeonb4c]

What a misfortune

I agree with Simon. The problems sound connected but not necessarily direct consequence of the diesel. You'll need to check for a reliable spark and go from there.Can't believe cost of recovery to UK could be more than value of the Bongo - that sounds like a bit of a dodge. Good luck and keep us posted if you can.

[Bob]

That is a problem these days, you pay for recovery but if the company think it's too dear they will 'Write off' your much loved vehicle instead of providing what you thought you payed for.

I'm with you, fetch it back however you can.

[helen&tony]

Hi
Several things come to mind...
1/. Flat battery...It's conceivable that they used a 12 volt pump to get the diesel out, or flattened the battery somehow.
2/. Battery had been removed / disconnected, and when it was re-connected, wasn't clamped up tight enough at the terminals (surprising how that can stop a motor firing)
3/. Earth disturbed somewhere in the ignition side
4/. A connection in the immobiliser had failed...disconnect it and try starting. It also may be that your immobiliser / alarm suffered wit the heat....I have been reading that a certain make of alarm (a good one) suffers in the heat....In fact, I had problems t'other day, and as I fitted it myself, I know it's done right....It turned out to be a dry solder joint
5/. make sure all the relevant fuses are O.K. and remove them and clean them
Also , as Simon said, take some spare HT parts, as they can mysteriously fail...and see if you can borrow a coil pack!
Cheers
Helen

[haydn callow]

Agree with Simon above......I unless the garage did something really stupid and are not telling you.
It has to be something very simple ....a disconnected or broken wire etc.....any competent auto electrician should be able to trace a ignition fault back to the problem and fix it...

[nth]

Not familiar with the setup on the petrol bongos but the pulsed coil earth is normally provided by the injection ECU which gets its spark information signal from the crankshaft sensor, are the injectors being pulsed when the engine is cranked ?
check to make sure the crank sensor plug has not been disturbed.

[Simon Jones]

Crank pos sensor can just about be seen at the bottom of this photo behind A/C belt which was taken from front looking up with dizzy cap at top right.

[haydn callow]

I don't see how anyone draining the fuel tank would mess about with any of the afore mentioned sensors....got to be something very simple.

[nth]

I don't see how anyone draining the fuel tank would mess about with any of the afore mentioned sensors....got to be something very simple.

Not sure either, like I say im not familiar with the petrol Bongo setups, not sure if they drained the tank from the filler neck or a fuel pipe in the engine bay ? if the latter they may have moved bits out the way to get to the pipe & disconnected something ?
On the other hand it could be a complete coincidence. The fact is there is no switching signal at the coil, next thing I would look to see after checking for any obvious loose of disconnected electrical plugs is to see if there is a live feed & a switched earth at the injectors, if no injector pulsed earth then suspect a faulty crank sensor.

[helen&tony]

Hi
I agree, It's highly unlikely that anyone at the garage did anything but pump the tank out....MOST LIKELY with a siphon and a hand-pump . Personal feeling is that the problem is electrical and sheer coincidence Gut feeling: Alarm / immobiliser as they often cut power to obscure places...second would be a dodgy earth...but...if the garage has been trying hard, I suspect it's something in plain sight that's just been overlooked.
Is the fuel getting through properly after the tank has been emptied?
Cheers
Helen

[Simon Jones]

I would also start with the fuel side of things (just to rule it out) and work forward to the injectors and ignition. Finding out how they drained the tank will help with the diagnosis. There is a high pressure pump inside the tank which runs when the ignition is on & just like on a diesel, there is a return pipe that carries the excess fuel back to the tank. This could be inspected & tested by removing the hatch in the floor although of course there could be a ply floor or conversion in the way.

The tests so far suggest there is no spark & that could be something simple such as a fuse or loose connection on the LT side of the coil or ECU. I don't have the wiring diagrams to hand, but they should provide a good way of seeing how it connects together. As mentioned before, I've got pretty much a spare set of all the HT parts of the system which you are most welcome to take to use as substitutes. Unfortunately, I will have no chance to look get to look at my van until the weekend but I could take some voltage measurements around the coil I establish what it should be. I've also got an engine manual you have borrow which does have quite a good diagnostic section. I could scan the relevant pages for you.

[markoos]

Thank you all so much for your replies, Simon you are a star, if i have to return to get the Bongo, i will take you up on your kind offer of the parts on loan.

I checked all the fuses, as many electrical connections i could see, i could find the crank position sensor so the picture is a great help.

I completely removed the immobiliser wiring and disconnected and reconnected the battery.

I have searched the forum and the members section, i cannot find a wiring diagram for V6, and if anyone has one it would be most appreciated.

I didn’t check to see if i have a cranked earth elsewhere, can anyone advise on what that circuit looks like? i.e. earth point to ecu? to crank position sensor? to injectors? to coil pack etc.?

I still haven’t heard back from the insurance company regarding the repatriation of the car, i just want it back so i can get on with fixing it, funny how much you miss a Bongo when you don’t have it! lol.

Thanks again all, you help is very appreciated

Mark

[windywatson]

I agree with all that has been said, however if this is a case of something very simple I cant see why any good garage would fail to find the fault. I would ask the garage what they had done to drain the system. It may be that they had also disconnected fuel lines within the engine bay to ensure all traces of diesel was flushed. They may not have received a complete description of what had happened and took that precaution. In doing so it is possible they have dislodged something.

[markoos]

Thanks again for the advice all, i have heard back from Britannia Insurance, the Bongo will be returned to the UK on the 18th September, YAY .

I cannot recommend Britannia Breakdown Insurance enough, start to finish they have been great, just need the Bongo back and fixed.

Mark