2002 V6 auto - trouble getting the ATF level right

[Simon Jones]

There's not many things that get the better of me, but this having a damn good try . So, I changed the gearbox oil and I'm having trouble getting the level right. The dipstick has 3 markings: one for 20C and two for 65C (presumably min and max).



Initially stuck too much oil in so drained it off, then it was too low, topped up and seemed ok when cold but then too high when hot. Been round this loop a few times and am looking for inspiration. I've followed the guidance in the factsheet, but the most annoying thing is that once you top it up via the dipstick tube, you can't get an accurate reading as the dipstick gets covered in oil when inserting and removing it. Don't have the luxury of hours to wait for it to all drain nicely back into the sump. Anyone got any pointers please?

[helen&tony]

Hi Simon
I never have luck with doing that...I top up and wait 'till another day, read and start again!...shame you can't wait a while.!
Cheers
Helen

[helen&tony]

Hi Simon
I had a thought...probably stupid, but would it be feasible to blow the oil down the dip-tube into the sump , if you can't wait after filling?...not sure that it'd work????
Cheers
Helen

[Simon Jones]

Thanks Helen, that's given me an idea . Instead of pouring oil straight into the tube, I could use the pipe from the Pela pump in reverse to effectively line the tube and keep it a bit drier. Will take a while to fill down the tiny hole though. I need the van over the next few days and it's currently parked away from my house so checking the oil once it's had time to settle is not as easy as it could be.

[helen&tony]

Hi Simon
EXCELLENT idea...I have an electric pump instead of the Pela...use it for servicing the big lawnmower!, and I intend to do the trans fluid...I had it cleaned about 6000 miles ago, and the filter cleaned, but it'll be a chance to flush more rubbish out, and re-dose it with Forte...I could pump the fluid back in!!!!
Cheers
Helen

[Simon Jones]

I thought I had it sussed today: checked level cold and it looked ok. Took it for a run and it was low when hot. There seem to be contradictory things going on here. When cold all the oil will drain into the sump so the level will raise, and when it's hot, the oil expands but it is also being churned around so the level in the sump will be lower.

Have topped it up again and will see how it is when cold in the morning. Need to get this sorted now as we've got some big trips coming up.

[Northern Bongolow]

could it be that when its been run the oil is held up somewhere say out of the sump/the wrong side of the pump/filter.
did you take off the sump, was the filter fitted correctly,pressurized in the flow pipe to the cooling rad etc/ blockage. ------just chucking things at you mate .

[helen&tony]

Hi
Simon...
Did you, by any chance , record approximately how much went back in the "box"...???...Chances are that it may have sufficient oil in there, because what you describe is pretty much similar to what I was getting since being over here.
A week or two before coming here we had a guy round to service the Bongo...all my stuff was in storage, so I couldn't work on the vehicle, ....now, I watched him work, and he was diligent and knew what he was doing, but on the way here...from France to Bulgaria , we had strange transmission problems....most likely due to overheating, as some Bongos don't tow properly, , and need an external oil cooler (pretty much recommended for towing on any auto, really), BUT...here's where the story converges with yours....I had NEVER been able to get a reliable reading of level since we came here....I had the transmission drained, filter cleaned and re-filled 12 months ago, and I can now get spot-on readings!....So....I wonder if it's a problem with certain makes of oil, and / or some hiccup in the previous drain / refill causing air / fluid lock...pop a bit of Forte in and see if the problem disappears...It sounds crazy, but It's the only time I've had problems with auto transmissions, and I know the reading before last refill was consistently reading over-filled wrongly, so I just left it!....I have a sneaky feeling that it MAY be a problem with "wetting" due to additives in a perfectly good oil, and it affects the way the oil clings in the dip-tube????....Frankly I was perplexed with mine!
I hope you get it sorted!
Cheers
Helen

[Simon Jones]

Thanks for the replies. Filter was cleaned etc and new DXIII oil used (EuroCarParts own brand) but I'll take your advice from the other day Ady and replace with Millers presently.

At the time, I carefully drained the oil out into an empty can with the intention of keeping a note of the exact amount removed and then I stupidly added some engine oil and petrol before I'd had a chance to note the level

Doing some reading online tends to suggest that the cold level on the dipstick is for engine running and cycling thru the gears, rather than the way engine oil is checked cold. That would make sense and the oil would be circulating so at a more realistic level. Going out for a run shortly and will take bottle of oil and a funnel so I can tweak it.

[mikexgough]

Hi Simon
I had a thought...probably stupid, but would it be feasible to blow the oil down the dip-tube into the sump , if you can't wait after filling?...not sure that it'd work????
Cheers
Helen

That's what I do.... compressor set at Shutz gun pressure and blow it down..... not easy if you haven't got a compressor.... or a mug of tea in hand... but it saves waiting for the drain back

[teenmal]

I thought I had it sussed today: checked level cold and it looked ok. Took it for a run and it was low when hot. There seem to be contradictory things going on here. When cold all the oil will drain into the sump so the level will raise, and when it's hot, the oil expands but it is also being churned around so the level in the sump will be lower.

Have topped it up again and will see how it is when cold in the morning. Need to get this sorted now as we've got some big trips coming up.

You need the engine running to check the level, range through the gears then select Park.

If you are using the temp guide on the stick you will also need a means of checking the temperature of the Fluid.(don't try and guess it)

PS, always best to go with the High mark as that will be the normal running of the vehicle.

[helen&tony]

Hi Mike
It MIGHT work with a high pressure 12 volt tyre inflator?...I have one , but I have the luxury of a workshop compressor as well...but it's good to know you've tried it and it works....I'll remember that
Cheers
Helen

[teenmal]

Hi Simon
I had a thought...probably stupid, but would it be feasible to blow the oil down the dip-tube into the sump , if you can't wait after filling?...not sure that it'd work????
Cheers
Helen

That's what I do.... compressor set at Shutz gun pressure and blow it down..... not easy if you haven't got a compressor.... or a mug of tea in hand... but it saves waiting for the drain back

The problem with that is you need the engine running (fluid pump operating) to check the level.

[mikeWalsall]

I would not think with the amount of fluid that the system holds, that the fliud level is hyper critical to a few mm ..

Maybe more of a proplem is .. seriously .. over filling .. and motor bikes in wet weather, as the excess fluid will get expelled out of the breather and onto the road ..

I often wonder why they did away with the torque converter drain plug as used on the old Borg Warner auto boxes .. there is more crappy fluid left in the converter than in the sump ..

Dexron 3 is no longer factory supported and any one can manufacture it to what ever specs. they like ..

Although a fully synthetic Dexron 3 fluid is available .. I have semi synthtic in mine and the gear changes are faultless ..

[Simon Jones]

I think it's roughly there now. Started it, cycled thru gears and it was around the cold mark (after another top up). Took it for 10 minute drive and checked it with the engine running and it was above the min for 65C. After about an hour of driving it's roughly mid way between the high and low so I'll probably add a touch more and then check it again tomorrow after a run.