Starting problem in extreme cold

RobinS · Post by **RobinS** » Sun Dec 24, 2006 4:37 pm

Hi,

My Bongo starts first turn of the key at home, but in Cervinia last week it was more problematic. It was very cold all week, and after standing in temperatures that dropped to minus 15 and crept up to a maximum of minus 8 it was a real problem starting. It turned over fine, but took an absolute age to fire, then struggled at about 250rpm, belching out black smoke and soot for 30 seconds or so until it sprung into normal life. It did this a couple of times at -8, then on Saturday morning to come home it was a warmer -6, and it started first go!

Back home it now starts first turn again!

Has anyone experienced this - are the glowplugs the most likely problem?

Any advice appreciated please.

Robin

pippin · Post by **pippin** » Sun Dec 24, 2006 4:58 pm

Sounds like gloopy diesel to me.

moonshine · Post by **moonshine** » Sun Dec 24, 2006 5:13 pm

Could possibly be glow plugs, but I think Pippin is probably right. Diesel does have a tendency to turn jelly-like in extreme cold, but I am sure there is an additive that can be added to the tank to prevent it. One coach company I used to drive for added a little paraffin to each coach's diesel tank, and that seemed to stop it, but I'm not sure if that's legal however. It didn't seem to stop that company though, as they didn't seem to have a very high regard for the law!

pippin · Post by **pippin** » Sun Dec 24, 2006 5:37 pm

I remember taking bunkers on board in Rotterdam on New Years Eve when the temperature was quite a few degrees below freezing.
Some of the heavy fuel oil overflowed from the vent pipe onto the deck by our accommodation. Talk of molasses in winter, the stuff went practically solid and it took a lot of effort to get rid of it.

dandywarhol · Post by **dandywarhol** » Sun Dec 24, 2006 6:24 pm

If you're worried about the legal aspects of untaxed paraffin then add some petrol to the diesel - 5 litres should be enough for a tankful in these extreme conditions.

If you plan doing a lot of extreme weather motoring it might be an idea to fit a Vauxhall/Opel type of electrically heated fuel filter assembly, or one of these from Eberspacher

jimsmimm · Post by **jimsmimm** » Sun Dec 24, 2006 6:55 pm

why not just switch on the diesel heater the bongo comes with ?

Post by **Ian** » Sun Dec 24, 2006 6:59 pm

Because only a few Bongos have the pre-heater devices.

cezeta · Post by **cezeta** » Tue Dec 26, 2006 10:56 am

we had the same problem last year and my mechanic showed me how to bleed the injectors (knowing that Im capable....but lazy) He agreed that cold diesel is a problem still if pipes are not insulated or if they are exposed. He showed me a vw passat (i think) on the lift which had all of its piping covered by an insulated trim.

Anyway the bleeding/service did the trick until now, due a service again. We spent Christmas in the Pyrenees camping in snowy mountains and it was fine and believe me it was cold.

So Im not sure what component of the service helped or maybe a combination of it all. Its now struggling again if it goes below freezing.

We have the engine heater button on the lower right hand area of the dash, didn't know it was a diesel heater though. Any idea where the heater is located?

pippin · Post by **pippin** » Tue Dec 26, 2006 11:09 am

I don't think it does heat the diesel.

It just closes off the exhaust to make the engine heat up quicker.

I have scoured the electrical diagrams for signs of a sump heater and found nothing.

pippin · Post by **pippin** » Tue Dec 26, 2006 11:26 am

Just picked up on this from a post in the 4WD discussion.

Moreover, the cold ground measures equipment
(large-scale,
twin battery &
exhaust shutter valve &
reinforced starter motor)
is installed.

Interesting. No mention of fuel/sump heater.

Are we aware of heavy duty starter motors?

Would there also be heavy duty alternators to cope with the extra charging of two batteries?

RobinS · Post by **RobinS** » Tue Dec 26, 2006 9:30 pm

Thanks for the comments - I have used diesel cars in much lower temperatures than this before without problems, though in this case the diesel was bought way back in lowland France before we got the alps. The diesel does sound more likely than glowplugs, as just by getting 2 degrees warmer the problem went away! As it seems OK now I'll leave it, then get the glowplugs checked at the next service.

Robin

cezeta · Post by **cezeta** » Wed Dec 27, 2006 11:53 am

I tried the engine heater yesterday and it made no differance to the starting. In a toyota hilux manual it says that this switch (same symbol) is to warm up the engine faster in cold climates.

We replaced our heater plugs last december so im sure its nothing to do with that unless they are known to regularly fail.

so im putting my money on the problem being in the diesel area.

my dad is a long distance truck driver, he asked when was the last time i used an addative to remove the water from the fuel tank............erm

does water sit on the top or the bottom?

dandywarhol · Post by **dandywarhol** » Wed Dec 27, 2006 12:13 pm

Bottom cezeta, it's denser than diesel. Might be worth checking to see if there's any water in the fuel filter container - there's a tap at the bottom..................

Seeker · Post by **Seeker** » Thu Dec 28, 2006 11:52 am

Hi The pre heater switch does not heat the diesel in the tank, there is no element.

It operates a system which means the glo pugs are on when the engine is idling at cold temperatures and increases engine idle revs a little, it also operates a diapraghm operated butterfly valve in the exhaust to make the egine worker harder.

I have removed the exhaust valve but left the rest of the system in place.

A diesel engine cleaner/cetane improver should combat gloopy diesel but the main problem with cold weather was the waxing effect which clogged filters, this has now been overcome by further refining the diesel.

I suspect the main problem is glo plugs but since this only hppens at very low temperatures why bother doing anything until there is a problem in normal UK temps.

johnzbenson · Post by **johnzbenson** » Fri Dec 29, 2006 3:24 am

I don't think that your symptoms are mutually exclusive. I believe it will be down to partially clogged injectors some injection cleaner like STP will help and of course the diesel does sound as if its getting a bit thick, a small amount of parafin should help as previously mentioned. when I was in Andorra a couple of years ago all the locals had either electrically heated diesel fuel lines akin to electrical trace heating cabling or they bought some proprietry additive at every fill up (probably parafin based) i would suggest that when back in the warmth give the tank a good dose of injector/ tank cleaner - the other tip is leave a good bit of spare room in the tank every day as in extremely cold climates the diesel delivered from the pumps is marginally preheated and i suppose if convenient a top up of "warmer diesel" may help

Starting problem in extreme cold

Starting problem in extreme cold

Lorry drivers used to light fires under their diesel tanks