Split relay question

[Gixermark]

Hi All

Quick one for you :

I have just purchased a fully side converted Bongo, the conversion being carried out late 2007 and to a very high standard, VW T4 / T5 style. Obviously all the electrics were proffesionally fitted but here's my dilema ... both my batteries are U/S now this cold snap has hit, purchased a Xoide starter battery and just ordered a Numax 100A leisure battery. Size wise the starter battery is exactly the same, the leisure is slightly longer and about 12mm taller .... did the checking and it appears there is plenty of room!

Okay, now my problem! The split relay currently on board, will this be big enough to handle the new 100A battery? The old battery has no marking whatsoever on it so I can only assume it's something like a 55 / 65A battery. As the weather outside is currently pants I have not been able to look for / find the location of the split relay to see the amperage it covers.

All cable's etc look thick enough, so, if the old relay is a certain amp ( say 30 or 40 ) should I change it over and if I don't what would happen .... would it just not work or blow fuses etc etc! Is it simply a case of buying a 100A relay and swapping over???

Appreciate your higher knowledge folks re the above

Cheers
Mark

[briwy]

Hope you get on better with the Numax battery than we have.
Now on the third replacement within a year, both of the previous ones were returned and replaced under warranty as they didn't hold a charge.
Just put the new one on this week so will wait and see how it goes.
There wasn't any problem with the warranty, just annoying not having the battery for 3-4 weeks while they check it out.
Based on my experience I certainly wouldn't recommend Numax.

[Gixermark]

Wee update :

Just braved the weather and traced the wires back. I have thick Brown / Blue wires, identical for both batteries leading into the living area off the Bongo. I have a ZIG CF8 power unit, taking the front of this, the 4 wires all go into the back of this unit. I can only assume this is a split charge setup incorperated within the ZIG unit so don't have a seperate split charge relay.... would this sound correct?

I have just priced up a relay locally, they have an 'intelligent' unit, only requires X 3 wires ( earth - power - power ) and if the 1 battery drops below 11.9 V ( I think that's correct! ) it stops draining the main battery.

What should I do re this, is the ZIG unit designed for my needs and will stop you having a flat battery or do I remove the ZIG access and go for the local relay ... cost £40 which I think is resonable!

[Gixermark]

Hope you get on better with the Numax battery than we have.
Now on the third replacement within a year, both of the previous ones were returned and replaced under warranty as they didn't hold a charge.
Just put the new one on this week so will wait and see how it goes.
There wasn't any problem with the warranty, just annoying not having the battery for 3-4 weeks while they check it out.
Based on my experience I certainly wouldn't recommend Numax.

Oh! dear, ordered...packed and on its way! Darn it. Was yours the 100A one?

[g8dhe]

First there are several different ZIG units Marque 1 thru to CF9 so without that info its difficult to say how it will behave! The CF8 and CF9 will try to parallel the batteries up - this is not a good idea As its quite easy to flatten both batteries still The ZIG CF8 and CF9 are really intended for Caravans but are fitted in Motorhomes a lot where they work but with so many switches people get the settings wrong Its best to fit a Voltage Sensitive Relay / Intelligent relay, under the bonnet, and not to use the positions that will parallel the batteries up (the wiring is rarely adequate anyway when it has to run from bonnect to Zig unit and back again).

Any Split Charge relay 40Amp rating or above should be adequate, the charging current most of the time is unlikely to exceed 15-25 Amps, only if the L/B is really flat will the charge current exceed 25 Amps and then only for a few minutes in most cases. Just make sure that the wiring can handle at least the same current as the relay and that BOTH fuses next to each battery are rated for the cable used normally 30-40Amps - there MUST be two fuses, one for each battery!

[Gixermark]

Thanks for the reply, I'm just off the phone to Peter at ZIG Hq. Technical wise, he has advised to wire up as follows :

Buy a 30 Amp split relay

Position 30 on the relay = + side of the engine battery. An in line fuse of 25 amp must be added, as close to battery terminal as is feesable.

Position 85 on the relay = Live on the ignition. Basically a live feed which goes on / off with the key.

Position 87 on the relay = Goes to number 2 on the rear of the ZIG unit. Disconnect the wire which is currently in number 2 ( This wire, I believe already goes to the + side of the engine battery so you could in thoery leave this connected and cut into the wire in the engine bay )

Position 86 on the relay = Negative side of the engine battery

So, when the ignition is on and the vehicle started the relay is live and the charging circuit open therefore charging the leisure battery, when the ignition is off the relay closes and the circuit is broken protecting any discharge from the vehicle battery. When the 240V is added on site this then charges the leisure battery as normal.

This is the way they wire the unit up and as he said, £15 all in compared to £40 .............

[briwy]

I agree with Geoff about the Zig unit, east to flatten both batteries if you're not careful. Painful experience of this in France.
I gave up using the Zig to charge the LB on the move and fitted a Willintin kit.
I have also rigged the Zig so that using another relay it now charges the starter battery as well as the leisure battery when on hook up.
Yes, our Numax is 100A.

[Gixermark]

I agree with Geoff about the Zig unit, east to flatten both batteries if you're not careful. Painful experience of this in France.
I gave up using the Zig to charge the LB on the move and fitted a Willintin kit.
I have also rigged the Zig so that using another relay it now charges the starter battery as well as the leisure battery when on hook up.
Yes, our Numax is 100A.

Willintin kit..... lost me! Can you explain your setup please?

[briwy]

Willintin kit..... lost me! Can you explain your setup please?

The Willinton kit is a split charging system that goes between the starter and leisure battery so charges the LB when the engine is running.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/MAZDA-BONGO-1 ... 4ac08167db
Seems to have come down in price as well, sure I paid more than that for ours.
Lots of us use it as it works very well and so easy to fit. It also has the facility by swapping a few wires round to power things from the leisure battery that normally run from the starter battery. eg radio, blinds etc
I now have the Zig CF8 right hand switch permanently in the Down (on site ) position. This stops the two batteries being inadvertently being in parallel so no chance of flattening the starter battery.

[Gixermark]

Willintin kit..... lost me! Can you explain your setup please?

The Willinton kit is a split charging system that goes between the starter and leisure battery so charges the LB when the engine is running.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/MAZDA-BONGO-1 ... 4ac08167db
Seems to have come down in price as well, sure I paid more than that for ours.
Lots of us use it as it works very well and so easy to fit. It also has the facility by swapping a few wires round to power things from the leisure battery that normally run from the starter battery. eg radio, blinds etc
I now have the Zig CF8 right hand switch permanently in the Down (on site ) position. This stops the two batteries being inadvertently being in parallel so no chance of flattening the starter battery.

Thanks for the reply.
Did you completly diconnect the old system ( 4 wires,2 from each battery, from the back of the CF8 unit then add the willinton kit?
This is another option rather than me adding the relay to position 2!

[briwy]

The leisure battery is still connected to the Zig but not the starter battery as now the Willinton kit is in place there is no reason for it to be connected. As Geoff said, the Zig is primarily for caravans and personally I think it's waste of space in the Bongo. At some stage when I've got time I will take it out and just use a CTek type charger for use on hook up. It will free up space for a another small cupboard or drawer.
I still have some things connected to the Zig like extra lights and sockets, also the fridge supply is connected to a terminal on the back of the Zig but it isn't actually controlled any way by the Zig. I have put an extra switch in to turn the fridge on/off.

[g8dhe]

If you can get one, the original Marque 1 is ideal, its just a panel with 3 toggle switches and fuse's for extra circuits, and a 3 way switch to connect to either battery or none at all and a volt meter, then you can add your own, or a Zig 12 volt, charger as preferred.

[Simon Jones]

The problem with doing it how Zig suggest is that you are putting a big load on the alternator and not giving the main battery a bit of a head start to recover the energy used in starting the van. You also potentially could be using the LB to start the vehicle as both batteries will be connected together once you turn the ignition switch to position II.

It will work, but it's not as good as a proper voltage sensing relay.

[g8dhe]

There shouldn't be any chance of using it whilst actual Starting as it needs to pick up the IG2 circuit. You go from OFF, to ACC, to IG and then sprung to START during START the IG circuits are disconnected so the relay drops out and only the S/B powers the Starter itself, it does mean however that by sitting with the Ignition key at IG for a few minutes before starting then if the S/B is dead you can transfer some charge back to it from the L/B.
You don't get that much head start either with most VSR's the trip voltage is normally around 13.8-14 volts, once you have a few rev's on then the alternator will easily be producing that sort of voltage.

[Gixermark]

There shouldn't be any chance of using it whilst actual Starting as it needs to pick up the IG2 circuit. You go from OFF, to ACC, to IG and then sprung to START during START the IG circuits are disconnected so the relay drops out and only the S/B powers the Starter itself, it does mean however that by sitting with the Ignition key at IG for a few minutes before starting then if the S/B is dead you can transfer some charge back to it from the L/B.
You don't get that much head start either with most VSR's the trip voltage is normally around 13.8-14 volts, once you have a few rev's on then the alternator will easily be producing that sort of voltage.

Do you think the simple version from ZIG HQ tech re the split relay is ok and not to bother with the Willinton version saving hassle & money?
Just want something that works ok & stops the chance of me having a flat S/B !