Leisure battery drain - advice please

[MountainGoat]

If you have only just had your leisure battery installed check that it has its own earth to the bodywork. The numpty that fitted my original leisure battery and split charging system did not put one one. I had to get an earth strap for it from the Bongo that Waycar8 was breaking. Don't really know if this has any bearing on your problem.

Tony

[g8dhe]

Lets just check how your trying to measure the current;
Set the meter switch to 10 Amps, plug the Black lead into the Common and the Red lead into the 10 Amp socket.
Now you say you have an isolating switch in the -ve lead of the L/B, make sure the isolating switch is in the ON position, and then connect the Red lead of the meter to the -ve TERMINAL of the L/B, and the Black lead to the chassis of the vehicle. You can now turn the isolating switch to OFF and the current is now running thru your meter and not thru the isolating switch. At this point I would expect to see about 0.05 Amps (or 50mA) or so with nothing turned on, turn on a Light and you should see about 1 Amp in general.

[clummzie]

Lets just check how your trying to measure the current;
Set the meter switch to 10 Amps, plug the Black lead into the Common and the Red lead into the 10 Amp socket.
Now you say you have an isolating switch in the -ve lead of the L/B, make sure the isolating switch is in the ON position, and then connect the Red lead of the meter to the -ve TERMINAL of the L/B, and the Black lead to the chassis of the vehicle. You can now turn the isolating switch to OFF and the current is now running thru your meter and not thru the isolating switch. At this point I would expect to see about 0.05 Amps (or 50mA) or so with nothing turned on, turn on a Light and you should see about 1 Amp in general.

I'm pretty sure there's no isolating switch on the -ve of the LB.....I've just popped out with a torch and as far as I can see (I'll have to remove the battery in daylight to be certain) the wire drops down into the bonnet and is attached to the body.

If I remove the -ve terminal from the LB to do some testing the fridge and lights don't work and it shows 0A across both terminals and between the -ve and chassis.

Previously today when I was using the multimeter I just attached the red to the +ve and black to the -ve of the LB.
For amps I would swap the red lead into the 10A hole and set the dial to 10A.

I know it sounds crazy but this morning the volts were showing as expected (12ish/14ish idle/charging).
After lunch I tried testing amps with the fridge on but it showed 0 so I re-tested the volts and it kept showing about 2.5v on BOTH batteries.
This isn't the case as I have another multimeter and a voltmeter which show both batteries at about 12V so I've assumed the original multimeter is now duff (or I've broken it!) - I bought it a few days ago from screwfix so was going to take it back tomorrow.

Obviously, I'm not really sure what I'm doing so do appreciate your help.

[g8dhe]

If you set the meter to Amps and changed the Red lead to the 10 Amp socket and then connected the red lead to to the L/B +ve terminal and the Black lead to the -ve terminal then you have blown the fuse inside the meter!
Edit: Just noticed that a review of your meter suggests that the 10 Amp range is NOT fused in which case ......

Firstly, let me tell you what Screwfix doesn't - what it will measure:
DCV - 200mV,2,20,200,600
ACV - 200,600
DCA - 0.2mA,2mA,20mA,200mA and 10A(unfused)

To measure current you need to intercept the wire and break into the circuit, either by removing a fuse say and putting the meter in place of the fuse or by removing the the -ve terminal and using the meter to replace the connection to the chassis from the -ve terminal.

My mistake, I thought you had an isolation switch in the -ve lead it must have been mentioned in another thread.

[clummzie]

If you set the meter to Amps and changed the Red lead to the 10 Amp socket and then connected the red lead to to the L/B +ve terminal and the Black lead to the -ve terminal then you have blown the fuse inside the meter!
Edit: Just noticed that a review of your meter suggests that the 10 Amp range is NOT fused in which case ......

Firstly, let me tell you what Screwfix doesn't - what it will measure:
DCV - 200mV,2,20,200,600
ACV - 200,600
DCA - 0.2mA,2mA,20mA,200mA and 10A(unfused)

To measure current you need to intercept the wire and break into the circuit, either by removing a fuse say and putting the meter in place of the fuse or by removing the the -ve terminal and using the meter to replace the connection to the chassis from the -ve terminal.

My mistake, I thought you had an isolation switch in the -ve lead it must have been mentioned in another thread.

Ooops!!!
I think I understand the difference in measuring volts and current now.

I'm getting a replacement from screwfix tomorrow so will have another go later this week following your instructions.

[clummzie]

Good news: There doesn't appear to be a drain.
Connected multimeter as advised and 0A showing initially then .8A with a light on and about 5A with the fridge.

Bad news: Another fuse (30A) blown on the relay.
Guess it's back to the auto-electrician then to ask what's going on as the relay can't be suitable

[g8dhe]

Have you charged the L/B from the mains not via the vehicle ? If not that is almost certainly the cause, once its got a reasonable charge onboard then the "inrush" current will not be anything like as severe and the fuses will be OK.

[clummzie]

Have you charged the L/B from the mains not via the vehicle ? If not that is almost certainly the cause, once its got a reasonable charge onboard then the "inrush" current will not be anything like as severe and the fuses will be OK.

Yeah, I charged it in the house last weekend and the previous blow was a week after it had come out of Bristol Batteries fully charged.

I've got a battery load tester which is showing it as 'OK' today.

I guess there's no harm in going back to the auto-electrician but my concern is that they might want to 'investigate' further costing me more money.

[g8dhe]

I just wonder if you Auto-Electrician has put the relay on the wrong circuit from the Ignition switch (assuming its not a Voltage Sensitive Relay (VSR) which it doesn't appear to be be from the photo) the circuit below shows the Ignition switch top centre it has OFF, ACC, IG2 and IG1/Start positions;

He should have picked up the IG2 circuit the Blue/White (L/W) wire but he may have picked up the IG1 circuit in error which is the Blue (L) wire in which case the two batteries are in parallel when actually Starting rather than being isolated, that would cause the fuse to blow!
Might be worth while taking a screen print of the page or giving him the URL of the On-line Wiring Manuals http://www.g8dhe.net/bwm/default.htm
The circuit above is for the Diesel 1997-1999 version, but the manuals cover all versions from 1995-1999 but not after that.

[clummzie]

I just wonder if you Auto-Electrician has put the relay on the wrong circuit from the Ignition switch (assuming its not a Voltage Sensitive Relay (VSR) which it doesn't appear to be be from the photo) the circuit below shows the Ignition switch top centre it has OFF, ACC, IG2 and IG1/Start positions;

He should have picked up the IG2 circuit the Blue/White (L/W) wire but he may have picked up the IG1 circuit in error which is the Blue (L) wire in which case the two batteries are in parallel when actually Starting rather than being isolated, that would cause the fuse to blow!
Might be worth while taking a screen print of the page or giving him the URL of the On-line Wiring Manuals http://www.g8dhe.net/bwm/default.htm
The circuit above is for the Diesel 1997-1999 version, but the manuals cover all versions from 1995-1999 but not after that.

You're a star Geoff thanks.

Just been out to re-test drain but this time on the 200mA setting (as 10A shows 0) and it's at a constant 11.9.
Started the engine and blew fuse number 3!!

Here's a photo
http://www.flickr.com/photos/61521647@N00/5397781213/

of the relay wired to the starter - it's directly off the +ve terminal via the yellow tape and then to the +ve of the LB with an additional blue wire that (I assume) goes into the fuse box in the cab.

Cheers for sticking with me on what is quite a painful thread!!

Edit.
Is it worth me running my spare LB instead for a wee bit to see if that blows the fuse just to rule out the current LB not being duff?

[g8dhe]

Arghhh that in-line fuse (you only have ONE fuse right ?) is right next to the relay and presumably that is the Orange wire that goes to the L/B ?
This is why you need TWO fuses one close to the S/B (the one fitted) and one close to the L/B, then when the Orange wire chaffs and shorts to the chassis neither battery will be able to burn out the wire without the fuse(s) blowing!!
The Blue wire which goes off towards the Ignition switch is the wire that should connect to the IG2 circuit which is a Blue/White wire on the Ignition switch itself again that wire should actually go thru a fuse as well as the wire isn't cable of carrying 60Amps which is the rating of the fuse before the Ignition switch !
I'll not comment about the Auto-Electrician your using .....

[clummzie]

Arghhh that in-line fuse (you only have ONE fuse right ?) is right next to the relay and presumably that is the Orange wire that goes to the L/B ?
This is why you need TWO fuses one close to the S/B (the one fitted) and one close to the L/B, then when the Orange wire chaffs and shorts to the chassis neither battery will be able to burn out the wire without the fuse(s) blowing!!
The Blue wire which goes off towards the Ignition switch is the wire that should connect to the IG2 circuit which is a Blue/White wire on the Ignition switch itself again that wire should actually go thru a fuse as well as the wire isn't cable of carrying 60Amps which is the rating of the fuse before the Ignition switch !
I'll not comment about the Auto-Electrician your using .....

Just been out with a torch and it goes:

SB-->Orange wire-->Fuse (that keeps blowing)-->Orange wire-->Relay-->Black wire-->LB (Just in case the pic isn't clear or I've been talking nonsense earlier on!)

Also, another black wire from relay to SB -ve

I've not traced the blue wire back to the ignition so no idea if it's fused but will try tomorrow indaylight.

This is the 3rd auto-electrician I've used (after 321Away wired the van twice) and I still haven't got a fully functioning relay!

[g8dhe]

Ah OK wasn't quite clear with the Orange and Black wire the Black wire to the L/B needs an in-line fuse at the battery end

Just been out with a torch and it goes:

SB-->Orange wire-->Fuse (that keeps blowing)-->Orange wire-->Relay-->Black wire-->LB (Just in case the pic isn't clear or I've been talking nonsense earlier on!)
                                                                                                                         ^ add extra in-line fuse same rating

The other thin black wire to S/B -ve is expected its the return for the relay coil.

The simplest place to pickup a fused IG2 circuit is at the lowest connection on this fuse it will have turned into a Green wire at that point having been thru the fuse, but if the Blue wire he has put in already has an in-line fuse then the Blue/White wire at the top connection of the fuse is fine.

[clummzie]

Ah OK wasn't quite clear with the Orange and Black wire the Black wire to the L/B needs an in-line fuse at the battery end

Just been out with a torch and it goes:

SB-->Orange wire-->Fuse (that keeps blowing)-->Orange wire-->Relay-->Black wire-->LB (Just in case the pic isn't clear or I've been talking nonsense earlier on!)
                                                                                                                         ^ add extra in-line fuse same rating

The other thin black wire to S/B -ve is expected its the return for the relay coil.

The simplest place to pickup a fused IG2 circuit is at the lowest connection on this fuse it will have turned into a Green wire at that point having been thru the fuse, but if the Blue wire he has put in already has an in-line fuse then the Blue/White wire at the top connection of the fuse is fine.

That's the air-con right?
I know know that cos I've just blown it and am off to buy some fuses!!

This will sound very weird but I've just traced the blue wire back into the cab and it goes up behind the clocks.
I took out the speedo dash bit and had my wife pull the wire so we were certain we had the right cable and it's wired into some plastic thing (with lots of other wires) behind the rev counter- no honestly it is!

I noticed that one of the wires from the fog light switch was hanging down so I popped it back in but when I switched the engine on the air-con didn't work as the fuse had blown!

[clummzie]

Something went wrong when I edit that last post

Ah OK wasn't quite clear with the Orange and Black wire the Black wire to the L/B needs an in-line fuse at the battery end

Just been out with a torch and it goes:

SB-->Orange wire-->Fuse (that keeps blowing)-->Orange wire-->Relay-->Black wire-->LB (Just in case the pic isn't clear or I've been talking nonsense earlier on!)
                                                                                                                         ^ add extra in-line fuse same rating

The other thin black wire to S/B -ve is expected its the return for the relay coil.

The simplest place to pickup a fused IG2 circuit is at the lowest connection on this fuse it will have turned into a Green wire at that point having been thru the fuse, but if the Blue wire he has put in already has an in-line fuse then the Blue/White wire at the top connection of the fuse is fine.

That's the air-con right?
I know know that cos I've just blown it and am off to buy some fuses!!

This will sound very weird but I've just traced the blue wire back into the cab and it goes up behind the clocks.
I took out the speedo dash bit and had my wife pull the wire so we were certain we had the right cable and it's wired into some plastic thing (with lots of other wires) behind the rev counter- no honestly it is!

I noticed that one of the wires from the fog light switch was hanging down so I popped it back in but when I switched the engine on the air-con didn't work as the fuse had blown!

I noticed while I was in there that there seemed to be a blue wire missing from the back of the fog light switch (which now the light red light doesn't work). There's 1 red, 1 black and 1 blue lead currently connected with an empty slot next to the blue.
Hanging down is an unconnected blue wire so I assumed that maybe it got knocked out the other week and connected it to the empty slot.
Turned on the engine and then the fog light switch red light came on but the air-con went off!
The 10A fuse (in your last image) had blown!!

I need a drink.........