2.5 TD 4WD first time overheating

[paulandyt]

I have had my Ford Freda for 2 years and never had a problem with overheating until yesterday (Sunday 24th May).

I was travelling from the coast yesterday afternoon about 4pm, on quite a hot day. Usually the temperature gauge sits at 11pm even when pushing up hills, but yesterday it shot up to almost H while climbing a hill, even while not trying to push the engine. As soon as I came to the top and went down the other side, it gradually cooled again.

I was then sat on the motorway at 65Mph @ 2500rpm and the temperature was on half (12pm) the majority of the way home, if not climbing to 1pm on slight inclines.

Is that normal, given I I have never had a problem like this before?
Or could it (probably) be the outside temperature?
Or could something else be causing it to overheat?

On Saturday, when travelling to the coast, the coolant in the reserve tank was above my coolant alarm sensor. Yesterday, before I travelled home the coolant had dropped to below the sensor (i.e. Between LOW and HIGH on the tank) setting the alarm off, so I topped up with coolant. Today the coolant is still at the same mark. Not sure whether that is relevant?


Thanks
Paul

[missfixit70]

Firstly, the temp gauge, unless it's been modified is not going to move off 11 0clock until it's already getting too hot.
This is not normal behaviour (you've had it 2 years & say this hasn't happened before), you lost coolant somewhere, check all the hoses for pinhole leaks, do a pressure test on the cooling system to find the leak & make sure it can hold pressure. It may be that you've got an airlock if you've had leakage, do both heaters blow hot once the engine's warmed up? worth giving it a bleed & I'd recommend replacing the thermostat if it's still not right, make sure it's with a genuine Mazda one.
If you're not sure get it checked by a recommended Bongo aware garage that is happy to work on the cooling system.

[Northern Bongolow]

the temp gauge as kirsty says does not move unless the cooling is struggling,if its not modified.
the gauge going to the H point is roughly where the fans come on,and are the last chance to cool.you say that the temp then dropped to 12 oclock,this is what it should do.

the strange bit is you say you ran it with the gauge at 1 oclock,so is your gauge modified or not.
sounds like a bit of checking the system,and tlc may be required,but bear in mind it has been very hot out there.maybe the system is working at the limits it can cope with.

[paulandyt]

Hi, thanks for your responses.

I took the van to a my local Bongo garage as I started noticing white smoke coming from the exhaust

You guessed it, cracked cylinder head!

Before I get them to do it, I would like to find out if the quote they have given me is not too steep?

These figures are approx as they didn't have all information to hand.

£245 Radiator
£90 for 2 hoses
£500 Cylinder
£500 labour

Although this doesn't add up, the final quote was £1450.

Is this about right?

Thanks

[Northern Bongolow]

sounds about right from what ive seen on here.
sorry its ended this way,if they are a bongo aware garage ask them about fittng one of the many temp gauge mods so you can see whats really going on in future,
hope the build goes well and your soon motoring along.

[paulandyt]

Many thanks Ady,

I will let you know the outcome!

[missfixit70]

There's a factsheet in the members area listing most of the options for temp & coolant alarms, I know that doesn't help now, but as Ady said, may help you see what's going on in hte future & sort a small problem before it turns into an expensive one. Did you find out why it had overheated? Was it the two hoses they've quoted for? (bit expensive on those, most expensive hose from Mazda is about £25 I think - unless that includes new clips?) Make sure they fit a ne Mazda thermostat, should be around £20, & it's the crucial part of the engine temp control.

[paulandyt]

Thanks, they did mention replacing the thermostat.

I guess it is straight forward to fit a temperature gauge. I have seen the TM-2 Temperature Gauge/Alarm on www.coolantalarm.co.uk.

I will ask them about the two hoses, but if they are £25 in the bongo shop, I am sure they must have got that wrong (the guy didn't have the info to hand).

Thanks for your help!

[cathysten]

Hi
I've just received the same news - cracked cylinder.
Not at all happy about it - mainly because I first became aware of a problem about 3 or 4 weeks ago (loud thumping sound of bubbles in the coolant). waited a while then filled up the coolant before driving very slowly to a (respected bongo) garage a few days later - I noticed smoke on the way. Asked them to check out the problem and do a full service. They did this, said they did a pressure check on the coolant system, and found 2 leaks and replaced some piping. So it was returned with a clean bill of health.
I then took it over to Scarborough - noticed smoke and discovered the exhaust was badly corroded (could not believe how this was not noted when it was serviced just 50 miles/week earlier). So took it in to a different place (recommended here) for a new exhaust.
anyhow, cutting a long story short I took it back to the first garage the next day when I noticed more smoke and the temp gauge swinging right up to H. I also noticed liquid dripping down onto the tarmac - told the garage. Despite all of these things I was told after a few hours at the garage (they bled the system again and I thought checked pressure) that it was fine to go to the Lake District. They said the liquid was from the aircon - and no problem.
Limped back from the Lakes, going very slowly, stopping very regularly to top up coolant, more white smoke. Went to a different garage today who quickly identified the cracked cylinder. I'm fairly sure the crack happened some time ago, so I cannot understand how it was never found out through a pressure check.

Anyway, slowly coming to terms with everything... - not yet got quotes in - but was told today about £1500 from the second garage (with 5 yr guarantee) - cheaper if I can source a cylinder myself. Paul - how much did you end up paying?

It seems pointless getting angry with the first garage, because I think the damage was done before I first took it - but I don't understand how they could not identify the problem - at the least I've wasted several days messing around, and had to take leave from work. Am I right to think they've let me down, or is not that black or white?! Surely a pressure test tells you fairly definitively if you've got a problem or not?!
Apologies for the long post...

[dobby]

£1500 to £1800 is about right for a head, rad, as many hoses as needed, stat, belts, proper gaskets etc.

I would advise getting it done by a bongo friendly garage, who will know a good source of heads or buy via the BF shop above: http://www.igmaynard.co.uk/bongo/merchandise2.htm#Shop

Don't do receipt-less cash deals and get a guarantee/warranty. Done properly a bongo with a new head is better than before and a good chance to overhaul some key components and invest in your pride and joy. Also get all the temp/coolant alarms fitted you can afford Haydn and Dave Mason are the best sources.

[mister munkey]

£245 Radiator about twice as much as it should be.
£90 for 2 hoses same again, get a set of the main 4 for £75
£500 Cylinder(Head?) Sounds too cheap - may not be a genuine Mazda one. Caution advised
£500 labour My local guy charged me 7 hours @ £35 an hour

Although this doesn't add up, the final quote was £1450.

Suggest you find out what you're getting & where from.

Better quality parts can be sourced via here for less but that labour quote sounds a little steep. Mine was done in a day.

[francophile1947]

or is not that black or white?! Surely a pressure test tells you fairly definitively if you've got a problem or not?!.

I think that when they found the leaking hoses, they thought they had solved the problem in all good faith. Pressure testing isn't foolproof because small hairline cracks in a cylinder head can "heal" themselves when the engine cools. The cracks open up again as the metal heats up and expands

[dobby]

Should qualify my price a bit, it was £1650 incl VAT and included ALL the hoses, cam belt and tensioner etc and a Mazda radiator.

[mikexgough]

the coolant in the reserve tank was above my coolant alarm sensor. Yesterday, before I travelled home the coolant had dropped to below the sensor (i.e. Between LOW and HIGH on the tank) setting the alarm off, so I topped up with coolant.
Thanks Paul

And the Head had gone... ..... between high and low is not that much of a loss IMHO.... I would have thought the alarm would have warned you sooner.....

[paulandyt]

Thanks for all the info. I will get a breakdown when I go back to the garage. The garage is ADS in Bristol and they seem to provide a good service.