Leaky pipes into autobox

[Alacrity]

I keep saying this but the oil level should be checked in Park. The level will read incorrectly if checked with it in gear as some fluid is then being used to apply clutches that wouldn't be on in Park. It may be easier in gear with less splash BUT IT IS NOT RIGHT, so by all means carry on doing it that way but just be aware that it is incorrect. I know I will now get a dozen folk saying 'I always do it like that' but it doesn't make it right. I 'do' auto transmissions for a living so I should know what I am talking about!!

Providing the transmission wasn't messing about when your oil level is low then I agree with Kirsty etc. that you probably haven't suffered any lasting damage. An oil & filter change (or filter clean) is always worth doing, be careful when you clean out the filter & sump not to leave more muck (in the way of 'flick' from rag etc.) in there than you take out - believe me it happens. This is why many vehicle manufacturers stopped transmission oil changes on services years ago. The oil should be red (probably dark red with age), if it is black or smells in any way burnt then you will have trouble brewing & you should speak to the supplying dealer. Some claim the transmission performance improves after an oil change but that has never been my experience with the Bongo's I have owned, so don't bank on it!

[steveyd]

Hi all,

Thanks again for the advice - I will check later with it in park (does make sense!). I didnt get the old "rotten eggs" smell, but it does smell a little burnt - a bit like a bad farmyard!! (at least its not at all pleasant). I will get it checked over and give the dealer a shout to keep myself covered.

cheers,

Steve

[missfixit70]

I keep saying this but the oil level should be checked in Park. The level will read incorrectly if checked with it in gear as some fluid is then being used to apply clutches that wouldn't be on in Park. It may be easier in gear with less splash BUT IT IS NOT RIGHT, so by all means carry on doing it that way but just be aware that it is incorrect. I know I will now get a dozen folk saying 'I always do it like that' but it doesn't make it right. I 'do' auto transmissions for a living so I should know what I am talking about!!

Popped into Dunnings Automatics today, all the guys in there agreed with you Alacrity I must admit I saw very little difference between the two in comparison today.

[steveyd]

Just had a horrible thought - I did check the level when the box was in park, it was still very low but as I filled it up (according to the advice to do it in D) it was way over the top... (but ok when D selected).

.. so if everyone has been filling their boxes to the correct level with it in Drive then is everyone overfilling their box? I'm sure mine is way over the top now and now I'm wondering if mine was as empty as I thought it was. Will it pop a seal if too much fluid in there? I'm guessing that the box is pretty forgiving of oil level? (fingers crossed).

Steve

[missfixit70]

Mine seemed to be pretty much the same level on both P & D. Had you ranged through all the gears slowly & was it all properly warmed up (at least a 20 minute drive)?

[dandywarhol]

Just had a horrible thought - I did check the level when the box was in park, it was still very low but as I filled it up (according to the advice to do it in D) it was way over the top... (but ok when D selected).

.. so if everyone has been filling their boxes to the correct level with it in Drive then is everyone overfilling their box? I'm sure mine is way over the top now and now I'm wondering if mine was as empty as I thought it was. Will it pop a seal if too much fluid in there? I'm guessing that the box is pretty forgiving of oil level? (fingers crossed).

Steve

Best to remove the excess (suction pump) as an overfilling can cause frothing of the oil which ends up burning out the clutch plates.

[steveyd]

When I checked the fluid it was nice and warm I think - (just done 50 miles a little earlier), however, I went straight from P into D, though I quickly went through the other gears once or twice. I have got once of those Drapers cheapo syphon pumps - is it literally a case of sticking the pipe down the dipstick tube into the boxes sump?

Thanks again!

S

[mikeonb4c]

I keep saying this but the oil level should be checked in Park.

Well said Alacrity. I noticed it 1st time you said it a while back (albeit a bit politely?), because you are seem to have worked a lot with autoboxes. If you are now definite about this then we need to keep repeating it. The inherited wisdom on here for some time I think has been to do it in 'D' and if that is wrong then the correct advice will need reissuing at every opportunity to get it established as the correct way to do it. We'll all try and remember to do that so you are not on your own. One other thing I could do with clarification on is how warm must the box be before level can be tested, or fluid drained? I've got a mental note of people saying something like a 20 mile drive but that is a real pain (and waste of fuel and time). Is there any quicker / doable on the drive way of getting to a suitable point from a cold start?

[dandywarhol]

I keep saying this but the oil level should be checked in Park. The level will read incorrectly if checked with it in gear as some fluid is then being used to apply clutches that wouldn't be on in Park. It may be easier in gear with less splash BUT IT IS NOT RIGHT, so by all means carry on doing it that way but just be aware that it is incorrect. I know I will now get a dozen folk saying 'I always do it like that' but it doesn't make it right. I 'do' auto transmissions for a living so I should know what I am talking about!!

Providing the transmission wasn't messing about when your oil level is low then I agree with Kirsty etc. that you probably haven't suffered any lasting damage. An oil & filter change (or filter clean) is always worth doing, be careful when you clean out the filter & sump not to leave more muck (in the way of 'flick' from rag etc.) in there than you take out - believe me it happens. This is why many vehicle manufacturers stopped transmission oil changes on services years ago. The oil should be red (probably dark red with age), if it is black or smells in any way burnt then you will have trouble brewing & you should speak to the supplying dealer. Some claim the transmission performance improves after an oil change but that has never been my experience with the Bongo's I have owned, so don't bank on it!

By how much do you think the level will drop when selecting the front clutch then? perhaps 0.01mm??? more?, less? You'll get more of a discrepency by splash IMO. but, I'm not going to argue about it, I also built autoboxes for a living and I still argue that it's a safety issue with manufacturers NOT advising to check in D - litigation and all that................

[Alacrity]

By how much do you think the level will drop when selecting the front clutch then? perhaps 0.01mm???

Well for start two clutches apply & not one, so it will drop, I don't know by how much but my point is it's not good to get in the habit of checking these things incorrrectly. I agree that, to me, it is foolish to check it in gear with all the risk involved.

Is there any quicker / doable on the drive way of getting to a suitable point from a cold start?

I would doubt you need to go further than two or three miles at the most, less if you do a lot of stop starting - especially if you are on hills. You would be amazed at how fast these the trans warms up.

[Doone]

One other thing I could do with clarification on is how warm must the box be before level can be tested

I think the box should be warm Mike.
Dandy has described how he found the 'warm up' phases before:

From my experiences the autobox has 2 separate phases of warmup operation. Initially (and in cold weather) the box changes up to 2 and 3 and stays in 3rd until a predetermined temperature is met. It then engages 4th around 20/22 mph. It stays in 4th and won't lockup the torque convertor until the temp needle is moving on the gauge (and the glow plugs stop operating at the same time under light load). Lockup is the final "shift" which feels like a 5th gear has engaged, at around 37 mph and the rev tachometer reads 1500 rpm.

[mikeonb4c]

One other thing I could do with clarification on is how warm must the box be before level can be tested

I think the box should be warm Mike.
Dandy has described how he found the 'warm up' phases before:

From my experiences the autobox has 2 separate phases of warmup operation. Initially (and in cold weather) the box changes up to 2 and 3 and stays in 3rd until a predetermined temperature is met. It then engages 4th around 20/22 mph. It stays in 4th and won't lockup the torque convertor until the temp needle is moving on the gauge (and the glow plugs stop operating at the same time under light load). Lockup is the final "shift" which feels like a 5th gear has engaged, at around 37 mph and the rev tachometer reads 1500 rpm.

Thanks for that. Its sort of what I'm hinting at i.e. 10 mins running should be max needed for getting gearbox warmed, not some of the figures I'm sure I heard bandied about some while back.

Also, as said by the experts above, the attraction (for me) of being able to check ATF level in 'P' rather than 'D' is simply the safety aspect

[Doone]

I quoted Dandy's description just so people have an idea of how the operation of the box is affected by fluid temperature, and the fluid level rises when it's hot.