Overheating: The Statistics

[mikexgough]

I have an LCA, i rely on it to give me a "cold start in the morning confirmation beep" of no overnight coolant loss... On the move its the mason alarm all day long for me! The mason picks up on slight temp variations very quickly, and properly adjusted is an absolute lifeline IMO.

Me too.........now without getting into a debate about "which alarm is best" or "I don't need an alarm"......

Like BDC..... I only "ask" the LCA to give an absolute warning in the 1st start of the day, should I not lift the bonnet to check the level - Now, due to the expansion of coolant and as some others on the forum and spanners like Nifty Nev agree with my thoughts, that should it go off and provide a warning during engine running, It could be too late for the head/gasket or both as there would be a good deal of coolant loss..... just my opinion and I'm prepared to withdraw my thoughts and publicly apologise, if anyone can evidence otherwise........I don't have any idea's of grandeur for the LCA as it is only a "level" measurement type device and nothing more not an overheating device, therefore the 1st check of the day would be the most accurate and most absolute that you are not losing coolant.
I must add that an undamped gauge (achieved by whatever method) should give a good idea of any engine cooling problems quite quickly.

[bigdaddycain]

Who's Nifty Nev?

[mikeonb4c]

There have been several on here who have been saved by the LCA going off when driving and they are losing coolant. So I think it does a valuable job. Where it may fall down is where the engine is overheating due to another reason, and the coolant boils in the header tank. But its not intended as an overheating alarm anyway. Haydn introduced a min-max version to deal with coolant rising as when boiling etc. but I don't know how good it is in operation (do users get annoying false alarms if they overfill be accident for example?). The Mason (as BDC says) has to be a first line of defence against overheating when there is no coolant loss. The experts used to be a little concerned though about its value if there was coolant loss since the temp sensor relies on being immersed in coolant in order to not give a false 'cold' reading. So LCA and Mason seem to me to be an ideal pairing. I suppose TM2 type alarms are a reasonable alternative to the Mason type?

[Doone]

...where the engine is overheating due to another reason, and the coolant boils in the header tank.

This is what happened to us Mike.

The engine overheated due to sudden and dramatic loss of coolant, not graudal loss (it errupted through the header tank).
There was a lot of noise from under the passenger seat area and towards the middle of the dash. It took micro seconds from the first noise to the erruption and coolant loss.

Since replacing the head, Al has fitted a 'low coolant alarm' and a 'non standard' temperature gauge. (I don't know which one but it's not any of the ones that have been mentioned on the forum... it matches his 'turbo boost' gauge. I shall ask him to take photos for the 'pimping section. ).
It's useful as we now know what the temperature should read under different operating conditions, so we know what's 'normal' for our engine. We would be immediately aware of any variation from the norm.
It also looks cool and you can vary the background light colours.

[mikeonb4c]

Since replacing the head, Al has fitted a 'low coolant alarm' and a 'non standard' temperature gauge. (I don't know which one but it's not any of the ones that have been mentioned on the forum... it matches his 'turbo boost' gauge. I shall ask him to take photos for the 'pimping section. ).
It's useful as we now know what the temperature should read under different operating conditions, so we know what's 'normal' for our engine. We would be immediately aware of any variation from the norm.
It also looks cool and you can vary the background light colours.

It'd be v. interesting to know what he fitted in case others fancied fitting one. Did Al ever conclude what might have cuased the engine to brew up like that?

[Doone]

You were quick, I just edited my post to say I'd get him to take photos, he has a few 'pimps' to discuss. Gauges are also useful pimps, especially when you can vary the background lights.

Did Al ever conclude what might have cuased the engine to brew up like that?

When he bought it, he knew some of the vehicles prior history. He knew it had lost coolant a couple of times. Nobody mentioned it had actually over heated but Al suspected that it had. And most likely this had weakened the head etc. Everything wears out eventually.
He changed the rad, water pump, hoses etc prior to it overheating, but knew that it still wasn't quite right. We were expecting the head to blow sooner or later. The noise of the coolant bubbling under my passenger seat was quite an experience.

[mikeonb4c]

You were quick, I just edited my post to say I'd get him to take photos, he has a few 'pimps' to discuss. Gauges are also useful pimps, especially when you can vary the background lights.

Did Al ever conclude what might have cuased the engine to brew up like that?

When he bought it, he knew some of the vehicles prior history. He knew it had lost coolant a couple of times. Nobody mentioned it had actually over heated but Al suspected that it had. And most likely this had weakened the head etc. Everything wears out eventually.
He changed the rad, water pump, hoses etc prior to it overheating, but knew that it still wasn't quite right. We were expecting the head to blow sooner or later. The noise of the coolant bubbling under my passenger seat was quite an experience.

Interesting one that. Sounds like nothing would have prevented the inevitable and most likely nothing would have warned you either A point to note in that case, so we don't blame devices unfairly.

[bigdaddycain]

Or in Al's/Doone's case... Devices aren't sold as being a definitive safeguard against cylinder head failure, as in some adverts for certain devices that i've read.

Don't forget to post some of those gauge pics in pimp Lorna! Hmm... a turbo boost gauge...

[mikexgough]

Or in Al's/Doone's case... Devices aren't sold as being a definitive safeguard against cylinder head failure, as in some adverts for certain devices that i've read.

Don't forget to post some of those gauge pics in pimp Lorna! Hmm... a turbo boost gauge...

[haydn callow]

mikexgough said
"Never worked for me when my radiator leaked.... not a light not a beep....oh well .... but then that leaked out when the coolant was hot.....

I now personally (and I know others do too) only take notice on the LCA as an initial check when the engine is cold in the morning.........but these days since the above happened.......... mostly I be relying on my chopstick......."

I don't really understand this........if it was a slow "weep" from the top of the rad....the alarm would have gone off after about a pint of coolant had been lost.......I can only assume that very little coolant had been lost before you were on the case and topped up.
The coolant alarm makes the chopstick redundant......after all it would be a brave man who "dipped" the tank whilst driving........and the alarm will sound EVERY time if the level in the TANK drops below the sensor.
This would be long before the Mason or any other temp alarm activates.......
In the case of overheating without coolant loss....broken belts/blockage etc then this is when the LCA becomes redundant and the temp alarms kick in.
The LCA does what it says on the tin and there have been a great many Bongo owners who thank their lucky stars they had one fitted when coolant was lost....Both in the morning when cold and during a journey when hot.

[mikexgough]

I was not going to respond to this post but have since decided to.......

Mr Callow ,with respect, please don't try and ridicule me and/or others regarding our methods, techniques or shared thoughts. It is not appropriate,helpful nor productive in a discussion forum where members meet to discuss and share issues/advice/experiences, as well as give their view on the topic that has been raised.

Just to clarify some points from your post.......and to add some context....

a) I have no issues or any affiliation, to or with any coolant alarms/systems/gauges.....
b) When my radiator split, the LCA didn't warn me of coolant loss.
c) I tell my experiences as it happened.
d) The radiator had split at the bottom not the top.

The LCA is a level sensor in basic terms and as you point out it will alarm when the level reaches below the sensors set position, this is why I added that I personally, would now only rely on the LCA in morning cold start ups, as the coolant will be at it's lowest point/level in the expansion tank. Please also notice that other forum colleagues have posted in this thread, that they also only rely/ask the LCA to warn them of coolant loss on cold morning start ups too, not just me.
I have no issues with you or your product at all, I just made an observation while in the operational environment.
In my comments I was passing on my experience as an end user of a product, and that it did not work for me when I would have expected it to, which was when I had a coolant loss and while the engine was hot. I was merely giving other owners information that they might find useful.
My expectations of how the LCA should work were set by what the other forum members have said about the product and the adverts/testimonials that I had read and seen. Perhaps these expectations could have been too high but with the vast exposure the product has on the forum as a “must have” product , why would/should I, have expected anything less

[haydn callow]

Sorry..I was not trying to put anyone down......just couldn't understand exactly what went on........no offense intended...
Again apologies.....if my comments were misinterpreted

[haydn callow]

Just re read my post and I really don't see that I was "out of order" or rude.
However if that's the way it came across then I apologize unreservedly.

[dobby]

I don't think I've joined in with a heated debate on over heating yet but here's my three pence worth

1. 2006 - Mersey Tunnel - Bleed pipe had been leaking, it kettled the header no LCA or Mason.

2. Feb 2009 - Core Plug Corroded on back of block - LCA warned me at start up

3. July 2009 - Hose went near the turbo - Just about to join the M6 - Mason warned me!

After number 3 a new head was fitted.

QED

[Glenda]

I think this is going off topic now. The statistics are for the Big Bongo Survey.

Let's not let it boil over into another coolant alarm debate. I always end up being pm'ed when I join those.