Coolant and Radiator and Stat

[mikexgough]

What coolant did you use David?....... Just curious......

[bigdaddycain]

What coolant did you use David?....... Just curious......

I only use Carplans red premium coolant in bongo's mike... OAT only! About a 30/35% ratio (give or take) Just as instructed on the bottle.

[daveblueozzie]

What coolant did you use David?....... Just curious......

I only use Carplans red premium coolant in bongo's mike... OAT only! About a 30/35% ratio (give or take) Just as instructed on the bottle.

Whatever Ste said is what coolant i use, (Ste buys it for me )
I have used the red coolant for the last three years.

[mikexgough]

What coolant did you use David?....... Just curious......

I only use Carplans red premium coolant in bongo's mike... OAT only! About a 30/35% ratio (give or take) Just as instructed on the bottle.

That's the same stuff as I use matey..... Techie Sheet here for your future reference

As you can see it gives the information about being compatible........ And that it is - but reduces the life of the Red stuff...

CarPlan Five Star Premium Red Antifreeze is compatible with good quality traditional (Blue/Green) silicate
antifreezes however it is not recommended that the two types be mixed as this would completely negate
any extended life characteristics of the Long Life Coolant. It is for this reason that extended life antifreezes
are coloured Red/Orange.
· Tetrosyl recommends thoroughly flushing the system with clean water if a conventional coolant
(i.e. blue/green/yellow colour) has been used previously.

[bigdaddycain]

I get the impression you are pretty clued up about this subject mike, as i've been impressed with your non blinkered view regarding coolants used in the bongo... Can i just confirm that the Carplan premium red coolant CAN be used directly into a freshly imported bongo with blue/green coolant in the vehicle? As isn't that also OAT? (in japan).

[BongoMTBer]

* If it moves off the C stop in 5 mins after start-up and you can virtually see the moment it kicks off, you have a healthy stat.

* If it takes 10 mins from start up and the move from C seems sluggish, you probably have a tired stat.

Interestingly , mine is still showing the same healthy signs 3yrs after fitting, so I reckon owners need not get too hung up about changing it every 2 years.

I'm still surpirsed at the idea that the stat might be opening and shutting on a Bongo - I thought stats were only intended as a shut-off valve while engine was below a threshold which was passed once engine was up to working temp - anyone know more about this (TGP for example?)

In my experience, stats are not just open or closed, they modulate. Ie, on a colder day when the rad is more effective, it will only allow a smaller flow of coolant back into the engine, as opposed to a hot day where the coolant in the rad will be warmer, so more flow is required to cool the engine. Same applies with an engine under heavy or light load. The engine coolant should be pretty static, whilst the rad coolant will vary in temp according to ambient temperature and the amount of work the engine is doing.

As for a slower warm-up Mike, if the old stat was not fully closing then warm-up would have taken longer, as the flow through the rad would also be heating up too.

[mikeonb4c]

* If it moves off the C stop in 5 mins after start-up and you can virtually see the moment it kicks off, you have a healthy stat.

* If it takes 10 mins from start up and the move from C seems sluggish, you probably have a tired stat.

Interestingly , mine is still showing the same healthy signs 3yrs after fitting, so I reckon owners need not get too hung up about changing it every 2 years.

I'm still surpirsed at the idea that the stat might be opening and shutting on a Bongo - I thought stats were only intended as a shut-off valve while engine was below a threshold which was passed once engine was up to working temp - anyone know more about this (TGP for example?)

In my experience, stats are not just open or closed, they modulate. Ie, on a colder day when the rad is more effective, it will only allow a smaller flow of coolant back into the engine, as opposed to a hot day where the coolant in the rad will be warmer, so more flow is required to cool the engine. Same applies with an engine under heavy or light load. The engine coolant should be pretty static, whilst the rad coolant will vary in temp according to ambient temperature and the amount of work the engine is doing.

As for a slower warm-up Mike, if the old stat was not fully closing then warm-up would have taken longer, as the flow through the rad would also be heating up too.

Thanks BongoMTBer - I've had an education in what stats get up to since posting this and after reading an interesting piece on the K-series Rover engine, prompted by a post by munroman. It sounds like stats get a bit 'arthritic' with age and become less responsive, lagging behind demand and potentially upsettig the dynamics of the cooling system. My only contribution to this debate is the personal observation that after fitting a new stat, the temp gauge jumped off the cold stop sooner, and with greater speed, so I reckon there may be a useful 'rule of thumb' indicator there for anyone wondering if their stat is tired. Opinions vary on this though so I only offer it as an observation.

[mikexgough]

I get the impression you are pretty clued up about this subject mike, as i've been impressed with your non blinkered view regarding coolants used in the bongo... Can i just confirm that the Carplan premium red coolant CAN be used directly into a freshly imported bongo with blue/green coolant in the vehicle? As isn't that also OAT? (in japan).

Ste. Thanks for the response matey..... and as can be seen in the Tech specs...."CarPlan Five Star Premium Red Antifreeze is compatible with good quality traditional (Blue/Green) silicate antifreezes however it is not recommended that the two types be mixed as this would completely negate any extended life characteristics of the Long Life Coolant. It is for this reason that extended life antifreeze sare coloured Red/Orange".
But that is because it's of a certain group of coolants - The general rule of thumb is G11 is the boggo blue stuff you can buy at any car place equivalent. G12 is pink, and does not play well with other children - mix it with G11 and you'll get a horrible brown sludge. G12+ is mainly used now, which mixes with anything – Mostly Red in colour, Notable Brands are Carplan Premium Red & Comma Extreme Red, VW & PSA group vehicles use it and it is coloured Purple.
Any of them will protect fine against corrosion provided they are changed at the stated interval - which for G12+ is "never". But given the chances of any of us "never" draining the coolant for whatever reason, just use G12+. Plus, it can be purple too, so it has to be good.
So as you say you can use the Car Plan Premium Red and the GSF G12+ purple as a top up on a fresh import, obviously as Car Plan State, the mixing will negate the longlife properties of the Premium red and you should IMHO replace the unknown on a fresh import with new coolant as the time/garage appointment allows. You are right too in the thinking that Jap coolant is OAT based, but with one exception and that is Toyota Red, for Toyota guys they should really "keep the faith" and keep using the Toyota Red as it is formulated for their engines.I have been talking to a chap who imports Jap cars from Skylines,Prius,Delica,Pajero,Bongo's,Cube's right down to Mitsuoka's....so he knows his stuff. They have the same issue with imports, some come in with yellow/green/red/blue coolants from Japan, shockingly they don't usually change the coolant for a known type but if needed (not very often very rare he says) they top up with a G12+ coolant. After chatting he feels that he should include a coolant change as a pre delivery item.
The Subaru import guys tend to go the Subaru factory coolant way, complete replacement with the 11 year life factory spec coolant, yet the Skyline guys do the G12+ Red coolant(Car Plan/Comma) route. Now a VW mechanic was telling me about their purple G12+ coolant which they and PSA use....they consider that to be fit and forget lifetime of the car product... but he did say that the generic replacement that Euro Car Parts sell for VW's is Car Plan red, which a lot of VW owners use should they need to replenish the system due to modifications/damaged parts. GSF car parts sell the G12+ Purple for VW group vehicles.
Hope that helps your thoughts and curiosity...matey...........but in the ideal world....change the coolant on a fresh import for a decent Long Life coolant and on a vehicle unknown to you ...... flush and replace as it makes sense....nothing more sinister than that really.....as for choice of coolant and I for one would not influence anyone here.....yer pays yer money....but what ever you choose....don't mix it.....
Although a G12+ coolant will be a "get out of jail" card in an emergency/short term measure. I haven't included Thermostat change in the above information but would recommend that too while the cooling system was down...

[mikexgough]

In my experience, stats are not just open or closed, they modulate. Ie, on a colder day when the rad is more effective, it will only allow a smaller flow of coolant back into the engine, as opposed to a hot day where the coolant in the rad will be warmer, so more flow is required to cool the engine. Same applies with an engine under heavy or light load. The engine coolant should be pretty static, whilst the rad coolant will vary in temp according to ambient temperature and the amount of work the engine is doing.

As for a slower warm-up Mike, if the old stat was not fully closing then warm-up would have taken longer, as the flow through the rad would also be heating up too.

Couldn't have put it better myself.... well done that man

[bigdaddycain]

I get the impression you are pretty clued up about this subject mike, as i've been impressed with your non blinkered view regarding coolants used in the bongo... Can i just confirm that the Carplan premium red coolant CAN be used directly into a freshly imported bongo with blue/green coolant in the vehicle? As isn't that also OAT? (in japan).

Ste. Thanks for the response matey..... and as can be seen in the Tech specs...."CarPlan Five Star Premium Red Antifreeze is compatible with good quality traditional (Blue/Green) silicate antifreezes however it is not recommended that the two types be mixed as this would completely negate any extended life characteristics of the Long Life Coolant. It is for this reason that extended life antifreeze sare coloured Red/Orange".
But that is because it's of a certain group of coolants - The general rule of thumb is G11 is the boggo blue stuff you can buy at any car place equivalent. G12 is pink, and does not play well with other children - mix it with G11 and you'll get a horrible brown sludge. G12+ is mainly used now, which mixes with anything – Mostly Red in colour, Notable Brands are Carplan Premium Red & Comma Extreme Red, VW & PSA group vehicles use it and it is coloured Purple.
Any of them will protect fine against corrosion provided they are changed at the stated interval - which for G12+ is "never". But given the chances of any of us "never" draining the coolant for whatever reason, just use G12+. Plus, it can be purple too, so it has to be good.
So as you say you can use the Car Plan Premium Red and the GSF G12+ purple as a top up on a fresh import, obviously as Car Plan State, the mixing will negate the longlife properties of the Premium red and you should IMHO replace the unknown on a fresh import with new coolant as the time/garage appointment allows. You are right too in the thinking that Jap coolant is OAT based, but with one exception and that is Toyota Red, for Toyota guys they should really "keep the faith" and keep using the Toyota Red as it is formulated for their engines.I have been talking to a chap who imports Jap cars from Skylines,Prius,Delica,Pajero,Bongo's,Cube's right down to Mitsuoka's....so he knows his stuff. They have the same issue with imports, some come in with yellow/green/red/blue coolants from Japan, shockingly they don't usually change the coolant for a known type but if needed (not very often very rare he says) they top up with a G12+ coolant. After chatting he feels that he should include a coolant change as a pre delivery item.
The Subaru import guys tend to go the Subaru factory coolant way, complete replacement with the 11 year life factory spec coolant, yet the Skyline guys do the G12+ Red coolant(Car Plan/Comma) route. Now a VW mechanic was telling me about their purple G12+ coolant which they and PSA use....they consider that to be fit and forget lifetime of the car product... but he did say that the generic replacement that Euro Car Parts sell for VW's is Car Plan red, which a lot of VW owners use should they need to replenish the system due to modifications/damaged parts. GSF car parts sell the G12+ Purple for VW group vehicles.
Hope that helps your thoughts and curiosity...matey...........but in the ideal world....change the coolant on a fresh import for a decent Long Life coolant and on a vehicle unknown to you ...... flush and replace as it makes sense....nothing more sinister than that really.....as for choice of coolant and I for one would not influence anyone here.....yer pays yer money....but what ever you choose....don't mix it.....
Although a G12+ coolant will be a "get out of jail" card in an emergency/short term measure. I haven't included Thermostat change in the above information but would recommend that too while the cooling system was down...

My sentiments exactly Mike...

I admit the colours can be confusing, unless you have done your homework, many would simply add blue coolant (as a top up) to existing blue coolant etc... Unfortunately, many people (bongo owners included) could be adding a gelled mess into the coolant system unwittingly, as they are (in their minds) adding the same type of coolant as is already installed! Which is fine till you realize that the colour coding is different in Japan!

I've used Carplan premium red for quite a few years now, after flushing the original cr@ppy coolant well and truly away... I flushed the system before adding the "red" of course.

I still have the second set of blue silicon hoses to fit yet to my bongo, the hose fitting will coincide with my bi-annual coolant change this coming spring, a new stat will find it's way in too, with everything being flushed through yet again (can't be too careful) But i suspect my coolant will look exactly as it did two years ago when i last changed it...That being crystal clear red

Mike? Whaddya reckon to me opening up the coolant release nozzles (not just the bleed hose) whilst dropping the coolant? Would that just be asking for trouble? (i.e disturbing something that hasn't been touched in gawd knows how long) Or should i simply do the usual and release the bottom hose from the rad?

[haydn callow]

The movement from Cold to 11'clock on a unmodified gauge has nothing to do with how good or bad your stat is (unless it has failed open)
The gauges reaches 11'clock at about 55/60C this is 25C lower than the stat opens.
Fitting a new stat should have no effect on the warm up process (unless the old stat was partially open..i.e. never shut...unlikely)

[haydn callow]

* If it moves off the C stop in 5 mins after start-up and you can virtually see the moment it kicks off, you have a healthy stat.

* If it takes 10 mins from start up and the move from C seems sluggish, you probably have a tired stat. Interestingly , mine is still showing the same healthy signs 3yrs after fitting, so I reckon owners need not get too hung up about changing it every 2 years.

Sorry Mike but that's wrong, the stat does not open while the engine is warming up, it remains closed until @82 degrees, so how could it be opening, or have an effect on temp at the lower end of the gauge?
The only way it can slow down the warm up is if it was jammed open after an overheat, this would probably prevent it from warming up to normal range at all.

Thats what I was trying to say above.......

[missfixit70]

You've got me curious now Ste, coolant release nozzles? whassat then?
When I've done it, I've dropped the coolant from the rear heater hoses, big hoses both sides of the rad as well as opening up the rad drain & bleed hose, chemical flush & then flushing freshwater up through all the above mentioned points in both directions.
As I've said before with the coolant, if in doubt, especially on a new import, I'd drain it, chemical flush it, freshwater flush it & new stat as a minimum, which I think agrees with most of the above

[mikeonb4c]

The movement from Cold to 11'clock on a unmodified gauge has nothing to do with how good or bad your stat is (unless it has failed open)
The gauges reaches 11'clock at about 55/60C this is 25C lower than the stat opens.
Fitting a new stat should have no effect on the warm up process (unless the old stat was partially open..i.e. never shut...unlikely)

Thank you Haydn. Could I ask you to explain why you think things changed so much with the replacng of an old thermostat with a new one, as I am otherwise mightily vexed to find another explanation. If it were not for this observation, I would not have a view, as I am no thermodynamics engineer. I fear I shall not rest well in my bed until I have laid this conundrum to rest in my own mind

[haydn callow]

I've no idea why your observations should be different...I just know that the movement of the needle and the stat opening/closing are not related.

The needle reaches 11'o clock at about 55C and it does then NOT move until the coolant temp reaches around 110c........during this "dead needle" period the stat is doing its thing without affecting the needle at all........do the FREE gauge mod and you will see exactly when the stat opens/closes (as I suspect you can with the Mason fitted.

I'm just putting my views across and as they are in agreement with another respected member and are built on our observations and experience I post them, (even if they were wrong).