Antifreeze boiling over and Engine overheating - Please help

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Re: Antifreeze boiling over and Engine overheating - Please help

Post by missfixit70 » Tue Jan 12, 2010 12:04 am

eoptio wrote:Hi

ref the aircon being on for bleeding the coolant, is this required and if so why? Just changed radiator/hoses/coolant on on ours a few weeks ago (before the snow...) not seen instructions on having to switch on the aircon for bleeding?

K
nowt to do with bleeding the cooling system, red herring :wink:
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Re: Antifreeze boiling over and Engine overheating - Please help

Post by mikexgough » Tue Jan 12, 2010 9:56 am

mikeonb4c wrote:
haydn callow wrote: Went out in ours, and a trip that normally gets the temp on the TM-2 up to 90C ...we only managed to get up to 82/83C
In theory, good engine design would aim to keep engine core temp steady over a range of outdoor temperatures. :roll:
my thinking too....... but there will be hot spots in most if not all engines......which is why IMHO any measuring devices should be in contact with the coolant, on water cooled engines, at the hottest point possible to give a reasonably accurate readout of engine temperature.....(Bongo sensor is located at the front offside of the head so, Mazda/Ford must have selected that through testing).........but like all devices be it a needle gauge, digital gauge or just warning lights/led's which are fitted to different trim specs on vehicles..........they are there as a warning only and the driver of the vehicle is responsible for taking notice of said device and acting accordingly.............

I saw a recent program on TV and a guy went to a supermarket car park with some engine oils.....he then asked various car owners about checking their oil....how they do it,when etc. - the results were shocking......so if people don't check their levels manually......are they really going to take notice of a gauge, light or readout?....... and understand any of the consequences.....just some thoughts....
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Re: Antifreeze boiling over and Engine overheating - Please help

Post by mikeonb4c » Tue Jan 12, 2010 10:52 am

mikexgough wrote:
mikeonb4c wrote:
haydn callow wrote: Went out in ours, and a trip that normally gets the temp on the TM-2 up to 90C ...we only managed to get up to 82/83C
In theory, good engine design would aim to keep engine core temp steady over a range of outdoor temperatures. :roll:
my thinking too....... but there will be hot spots in most if not all engines......which is why IMHO any measuring devices should be in contact with the coolant, on water cooled engines, at the hottest point possible to give a reasonably accurate readout of engine temperature.....(Bongo sensor is located at the front offside of the head so, Mazda/Ford must have selected that through testing).........but like all devices be it a needle gauge, digital gauge or just warning lights/led's which are fitted to different trim specs on vehicles..........they are there as a warning only and the driver of the vehicle is responsible for taking notice of said device and acting accordingly.............

I saw a recent program on TV and a guy went to a supermarket car park with some engine oils.....he then asked various car owners about checking their oil....how they do it,when etc. - the results were shocking......so if people don't check their levels manually......are they really going to take notice of a gauge, light or readout?....... and understand any of the consequences.....just some thoughts....
I think we think the same. I've replied on another thread saying this, but my only (slight) reservation about measuring coolant temp itself is I can't work out what effect an active cooling system (that may or may not be working at proper efficiency) might have on things. I find myself thinking that a good std. position on the block (one that reliably gives a figure that has a stabe relationship with heat from the core that is not being carried away successfully by the coolant) and getting everyone to use that position.....may be the best route. But debate on this one will run and run I think! :lol:
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Re: Antifreeze boiling over and Engine overheating - Please help

Post by mikexgough » Tue Jan 12, 2010 11:17 am

mikeonb4c wrote:
I find myself thinking that a good std. position on the block (one that reliably gives a figure that has a stabe relationship with heat from the core that is not being carried away successfully by the coolant) and getting everyone to use that position.....may be the best route. But debate on this one will run and run I think! :lol:
I think so......but this really only applies to the digi readout folks.......
now....to open up a bit more of the can of worms....as the Rad Fans will keep the coolant temperature to the "correct" level we need to introduce these as a slight tangent to the thread as they are a small part of the cooling process.
The ECU controls the Rad Fans......and how often they work for you as we know..... and I think (rightly or wrongly - shoot me down here) that the more efficient your cooling system is (ie.... well flushed through at coolant change and subsequently free flowing) the less the Rad fans will "kick" in.... :?:
BUT I am not saying that to promote fear to owners who's rad fans run reasonably frequently. Until we have a decent understanding of how/when the ECU is programmed to operate the Rad fans who knows what it right or wrong with Rad Fans running more than others.....Mine run very infrequent even in summer....apart from when the A/C is switched on
As I have said on another topic........The Japanese don't fit any coolant monitoring devices......Why is that?...... if you don't believe me look at the Japanese Bongo owners sites.....
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Re: Antifreeze boiling over and Engine overheating - Please help

Post by mikexgough » Tue Jan 12, 2010 9:19 pm

the Japs have cooling system issues too.........

http://translate.google.com/translate?j ... ry_state0=

and they still don't fit add on gauges and lights, alarms nor un damp the Temperature gauge.....
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Re: Antifreeze boiling over and Engine overheating - Please help

Post by Doone » Wed Jan 13, 2010 10:37 am

Rectify the cause of the leak case. 8) The Japanese are pretty gadget crazy, it sounds like there's an opening in the market for someone to sell them coolant alarms. :wink:
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Re: Antifreeze boiling over and Engine overheating - Please help

Post by mikexgough » Wed Jan 13, 2010 10:57 am

Doone wrote:Rectify the cause of the leak case. 8) The Japanese are pretty gadget crazy, it sounds like there's an opening in the market for someone to sell them coolant alarms. :wink:

They could get them from OZ...... not too far away.....makes you wonder why.......as you say gadget crazy....
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Re: Antifreeze boiling over and Engine overheating - Please help

Post by pagetjm » Fri Jan 15, 2010 2:39 pm

Problem solved!!

Just wanted to thank everyone for there help.

Although we haven't definitely diagnosed the original cause of the problem we believe that it might have been the Thermostat being stuck closed. We are going to swap it out on Tuesday.

Basically I think that during the very cold weather something has frozen up (possibly thermostat). This meant that the collant wasn't able to circulate and I don't think the concentration of anti-freeze was correct either which didn't help.

The second breakdown, where the coolant boiled over even though it had been topped up was indeed caused by air in the system!! I spoke with Haydn (who was VERY helpful - thankyou!) and in the end called out a mobile mechanic (as I was stuck at the office with no tools). We managed to bleed it properly (in the snow!) and got the bottom pipe hot. It is now running well - I am still getting the thermostat swapped out on Tuesday (for the sake of £12.50 it is worth it).

The VERY good news is that I have now found my future mechanic. I simply googled 'mobile mechanic + ipswich) and got this guy Chris Larkins of Drivetrain UK. He was a South African guy who apparently used to work on a lot of these vans over in SA - what a bit of luck!! It cost me £30 + £10 call out (only a one off callout charge for new customers) we spent over an hour getting the air out and making sure it was ok - bargain!!

He noticed that one of my water pipes looks like it could go soon aswell so he is going to replace it on Tuesday. He is going to swap out all of my hoses (which I have now purchased).

Regards

Jason
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Re: Antifreeze boiling over and Engine overheating - Please help

Post by mikeonb4c » Fri Jan 15, 2010 3:18 pm

pagetjm wrote:Problem solved!!

Just wanted to thank everyone for there help.

Although we haven't definitely diagnosed the original cause of the problem we believe that it might have been the Thermostat being stuck closed. We are going to swap it out on Tuesday.

Basically I think that during the very cold weather something has frozen up (possibly thermostat). This meant that the collant wasn't able to circulate and I don't think the concentration of anti-freeze was correct either which didn't help.

The second breakdown, where the coolant boiled over even though it had been topped up was indeed caused by air in the system!! I spoke with Haydn (who was VERY helpful - thankyou!) and in the end called out a mobile mechanic (as I was stuck at the office with no tools). We managed to bleed it properly (in the snow!) and got the bottom pipe hot. It is now running well - I am still getting the thermostat swapped out on Tuesday (for the sake of £12.50 it is worth it).

The VERY good news is that I have now found my future mechanic. I simply googled 'mobile mechanic + ipswich) and got this guy Chris Larkins of Drivetrain UK. He was a South African guy who apparently used to work on a lot of these vans over in SA - what a bit of luck!! It cost me £30 + £10 call out (only a one off callout charge for new customers) we spent over an hour getting the air out and making sure it was ok - bargain!!

He noticed that one of my water pipes looks like it could go soon aswell so he is going to replace it on Tuesday. He is going to swap out all of my hoses (which I have now purchased).

Regards

Jason
Well that sounds like all round good news =D>
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Re: Antifreeze boiling over and Engine overheating - Please help

Post by Ron Miel » Fri Jan 15, 2010 3:47 pm

pagetjm wrote:No, heaters not working.

Also, how do I bleed the system? Is it something I can do from the top of the engine bay or do I need to get underneath? I noticed a small tap near the front of the radiator with an H on it, wasn't sure if that was anything to do with it?

Jason
The "tap" (cap actually) marked "H" is to access the high pressure side of the aircon system - and is not connected to the engine cooling system. There are actually two radiators there, one behind the other - the front one is the aircon condenser.

Good luck with getting it fixed.

EDIT: Ah, I see you did get it fixed! Good. (Read this thread a bit late :lol: )
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Re: Antifreeze boiling over and Engine overheating - Please help

Post by corrour » Sat Jan 16, 2010 9:36 am

After last sunday driving 4 miles mine did the same i have one of Haydn`s ESTC/Combo
alarms fitted high temp alarm came on annd bongo guage started to rise so i pulled over to find fans running and coolant coming out of expansion bottle. let it cool topped up the bottle with no heater.bloody cold.
Managed to get home & thinking i had got air in some how i set about bleeding up till the bottom hose got hot all went well every thing was fine until the cap went on the bottle and on a short test drive it did it again.
Waited while monday and had a long talk with Haydn on the phone decided to fit a stat {cheapest bit} changed all the coolant bled again and all went well untill cap fitted. Chucked it out again. More Talk With Haydn decided as a hopefull jesture fit a new water pump. did this wed fully bled every thing went ok
drove 4 miles thought we had sussed it. Let it cool down checked all levels an collant level was up near top of bottle. thought this was due to expansion. Set off again on a short test drive got 2 miles alarm on temp guage started to rise heater went cold stopped and low n behold coolant being chucked out the bottle.
Oh well Shit Happens. AA now transporting to Ian Taylor In Staffs for a Head/ Gasket or head. We tried the cheapest bit s first.
I will keep u posted.

Thanks again to Haydn for all his help. just hope the alarm saved the head n its just a gasket.

As famous jap man said All That Rises Is Not Good

If any one wants a second hand water pump pm me with a cheap offer

John Lee :( :( :( :(
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Re: Antifreeze boiling over and Engine overheating - Please help

Post by mikeonb4c » Sat Jan 16, 2010 10:17 am

corrour wrote:After last sunday driving 4 miles mine did the same i have one of Haydn`s ESTC/Combo
alarms fitted high temp alarm came on annd bongo guage started to rise so i pulled over to find fans running and coolant coming out of expansion bottle. let it cool topped up the bottle with no heater.bloody cold.
Managed to get home & thinking i had got air in some how i set about bleeding up till the bottom hose got hot all went well every thing was fine until the cap went on the bottle and on a short test drive it did it again.
Waited while monday and had a long talk with Haydn on the phone decided to fit a stat {cheapest bit} changed all the coolant bled again and all went well untill cap fitted. Chucked it out again. More Talk With Haydn decided as a hopefull jesture fit a new water pump. did this wed fully bled every thing went ok
drove 4 miles thought we had sussed it. Let it cool down checked all levels an collant level was up near top of bottle. thought this was due to expansion. Set off again on a short test drive got 2 miles alarm on temp guage started to rise heater went cold stopped and low n behold coolant being chucked out the bottle.
Oh well Shit Happens. AA now transporting to Ian Taylor In Staffs for a Head/ Gasket or head. We tried the cheapest bit s first.
I will keep u posted.

Thanks again to Haydn for all his help. just hope the alarm saved the head n its just a gasket.

As famous jap man said All That Rises Is Not Good

If any one wants a second hand water pump pm me with a cheap offer

John Lee :( :( :( :(
Sorry to hear that news dude. :(

I suppose there's still a chance it's not the head (was coolant checked for exhaust gas traces?). That else might it be - hmmmm. Just possible the radiator has crudded up. Good luck getting it sorted and I'd be v. interested to hear what Ian diagnoses the problem as. It should be in good hands with him anyway. :) 8)
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Re: Antifreeze boiling over and Engine overheating - Please help

Post by corrour » Sat Jan 16, 2010 10:34 am

We tested it with gas test liquid and there seemed no trace but when removing the cap to do it it chucked the coolant out.n there was a lot of pressure.
there seems to be plenty of flow at the bottom hose gets nice n warm but cooler than the top. There may be hope but i am expecting the worst.

john :(
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Re: Antifreeze boiling over and Engine overheating - Please help

Post by mikeonb4c » Sat Jan 16, 2010 10:43 am

corrour wrote:We tested it with gas test liquid and there seemed no trace but when removing the cap to do it it chucked the coolant out.n there was a lot of pressure.
there seems to be plenty of flow at the bottom hose gets nice n warm but cooler than the top. There may be hope but i am expecting the worst.

john :(
Hmmm - strange. Out of interest, was there any sign of rusty lookng coolant rust stained expansion tank?

It'll be interesting to see what Ian Taylor says
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Re: Antifreeze boiling over and Engine overheating - Please help

Post by stilldesperate » Sat Jan 16, 2010 10:55 am

corrour wrote:We tested it with gas test liquid and there seemed no trace
john :(
Mine tested zero at two seperate garages, and I was told the sniff test wouldn't work at the second place.

Head had gone.

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