steel seal

[bongoben]

Practically all antifreezes are based on ethylene glycol or propylene glycol.
Ethylene glycol is highly toxic, propylene glycol is far less toxic and must
be used in all applications involving the food industry. HSE regulations.

In America and Asia (Japan), conventional 2 year antifreeze is coloured Green.
In Europe (UK), conventional 2 year antifreeze is coloured Blue.

Green antifreeze contains a high level of inorganic phosphates which is preferred
due to the general water quality in those areas which produce less limescale.

Blue antifreeze contains little or no phosphates and a greater proportion of
silicates, this is preferred in Europe as generally the water contains limescale
forming solids.

Both blue and green antifreeze rely on maintaining the pH level of the antifreeze
in the alkaline region to avoid corrosion, usually to pH 8 and above.

Extended life or OAT antifreeze contains a high level of carboxylate salts which
prevent corrosion by forming a thin barrier between the metal parts of the
cooling system and the coolant which may contain oxydising agents such as
carbonic acid etc. The pH value of OAT antifreezes can be as low as 5.5 or
6 pH which is well into the acidic region. OAT antifreeze is generally coloured
red, orange or pink in all regions.

Green and blue antifreezes are relatively compatible due to their use of inorganic
corrosion inhibitors and both operating in the high pH alkaline area. OAT antifreeze
is NOT compatible with conventional blue and green antifreeze and should NOT
be mixed.

Steel Seal is not compatible with the carboxylate salts in OAT antifreezes which
deposit a film on the metal surfaces and may prevent the Steel Seal from migrating
to the damaged steel or aluminium surfaces, or there could be a chemical reaction
between the ingredients. Pure guesswork, not much data available about SS.

So, if you want to use Steel seal then use conventional BLUE antifreeze, Bluecol
or Comma Coolmaster, they are both good quality conventional antifreezes.

[wishmaster]

Hi, ive just had a flush and refill and my bongo garage used halfords 'blue' ethylene glycol 2 year anti freeze but ive got a V6 not a diesel, dont know if it makes a difference
Anyway if i were going to put 'steel seal' into my bongo i'd follow the instructions to the letter and get the recommended anti-freeze, and if it didn't work, then you can go back to the company and complain, but thats just me
You pay's your money and takes your chance

Iz

[daveblueozzie]

Practically all antifreezes are based on ethylene glycol or propylene glycol.
Ethylene glycol is highly toxic, propylene glycol is far less toxic and must
be used in all applications involving the food industry. HSE regulations.

In America and Asia (Japan), conventional 2 year antifreeze is coloured Green.
In Europe (UK), conventional 2 year antifreeze is coloured Blue.

Green antifreeze contains a high level of inorganic phosphates which is preferred
due to the general water quality in those areas which produce less limescale.

Blue antifreeze contains little or no phosphates and a greater proportion of
silicates, this is preferred in Europe as generally the water contains limescale
forming solids.

Both blue and green antifreeze rely on maintaining the pH level of the antifreeze
in the alkaline region to avoid corrosion, usually to pH 8 and above.

Extended life or OAT antifreeze contains a high level of carboxylate salts which
prevent corrosion by forming a thin barrier between the metal parts of the
cooling system and the coolant which may contain oxydising agents such as
carbonic acid etc. The pH value of OAT antifreezes can be as low as 5.5 or
6 pH which is well into the acidic region. OAT antifreeze is generally coloured
red, orange or pink in all regions.

Green and blue antifreezes are relatively compatible due to their use of inorganic
corrosion inhibitors and both operating in the high pH alkaline area. OAT antifreeze
is NOT compatible with conventional blue and green antifreeze and should NOT
be mixed.

Steel Seal is not compatible with the carboxylate salts in OAT antifreezes which
deposit a film on the metal surfaces and may prevent the Steel Seal from migrating
to the damaged steel or aluminium surfaces, or there could be a chemical reaction
between the ingredients. Pure guesswork, not much data available about SS.

So, if you want to use Steel seal then use conventional BLUE antifreeze, Bluecol
or Comma Coolmaster, they are both good quality conventional antifreezes.

I think this info should deffo be put onto a fact sheet.

[Ian]

It will be!

[dandywarhol]

Excellent find bongoben

........and if that wasn't enough there's ADVANCED OAT (Organic acid Technology). Its got a "Highly reactive new chemical additive package with explicitly superior corrosion protection"
It is designed specifically for V.A.G. Group vehicles in 2005 and aimed at the larger engines in their range - 6,8,10 cylinder models.

With over 70% of vehicles in the E.U. using OAT or advanced OAT then good old green or blue will soon be harder to obtain and more expensive IMO.

[Aunt Trumpet]

Yep, definitely go for the BLUE 2 year stuff and not the red when using Steel Seal.....I also didn't follow the EXACT instructions, instead of putting it in the header tank as described I put it in via the bleed pipe. This was because the Bongo cooling circuit is not a "conventional" system and I wanted it to go straight into the cylinder head from the word go. Other than that, do what it says on the bottle. You also only need 1 bottle for 2.5 litre engines too.

[Bongoburt]

Thanks to everyone that provided me with the info on what antifreeze to use with steal seal,
my steal seal arrived to day I mixed it with Halfords 2year blue antifreeze and poured it through
the coolant bleed pipe 2litres as Aunt Trumpet did, then I put the rest of the water and antifreeze mix
into the rad and header tank.
Then I started the engine and brought it up to normal temp, then stopped the engine and as i write this
am letting her cool down for an hour and then start up again and bring back to normal temp.
this has to be done 3 times, so I should have some results this evening (if any).

[mikeonb4c]

Thanks to everyone that provided me with the info on what antifreeze to use with steal seal,
my steal seal arrived to day I mixed it with Halfords 2year blue antifreeze and poured it through
the coolant bleed pipe 2litres as Aunt Trumpet did, then I put the rest of the water and antifreeze mix
into the rad and header tank.
Then I started the engine and brought it up to normal temp, then stopped the engine and as i write this
am letting her cool down for an hour and then start up again and bring back to normal temp.
this has to be done 3 times, so I should have some results this evening (if any).

Fingers and toes crossed for you BB

[Aethelric]

Wow, I've been off the forum for a while, due to pressure of work. My bongo gets air into the system as it warms up, but it has run OK without a thermostat for four months. But as the heater is ineffective its bloody cold in this weather. I was resigned to a head gasket or even a head change in January, now I think I'll give this a try.
The on line faqhttp://www.steelseal.co.uk/how-to-use--faq-4-w.asp says:-

Additional Directions
These directions are for people that have a lot of pressure building in the cooling system, usually shown as bubbling in the header tank or air forcing past the coolant cap.

1.
Locate the cylinder causing the bubbling in the overflow tank or backpressure. (Remove plugs one at a time till bubbling stops)
2.
Follow the directions above up to and including No.5.
3.
Before starting the engine, remove the spark plug or injector from the cylinder that was causing the bubbling in the overflow tank or backpressure. If accessible, remove injector wire from that cylinder. This will limit the amount of unburned fuel going into the combustion chamber.
4.
If you can not find the spark plug that is missing, run the engine with the coolant level down to the top of the radiator core and with the radiator cap off.
5.
Continue with direction No.6 above. Make sure to run the engine two times up to temperature with the spark plug /Injector out and for the one final time with the spark plug/injector back in place.

Is it easy to remove injectors on a bongo?

Dave

[bongoben]

My bongo gets air into the system as it warms up, but it has run OK without a thermostat for four months. But as the heater is ineffective its bloody cold.

Is it easy to remove injectors on a bongo?

Dave

As your Bongo appears to run OK without the thermostat, it may not be as bad as you think.
The extended directions are for engines which are miss-firing and exhausting continuous white
water vapour.

Why not wait until bongoburt reports back and then re-consider your options.

[Aethelric]

My bongo gets air into the system as it warms up, but it has run OK without a thermostat for four months. But as the heater is ineffective its bloody cold.

Is it easy to remove injectors on a bongo?

Dave

As your Bongo appears to run OK without the thermostat, it may not be as bad as you think.
The extended directions are for engines which are miss-firing and exhausting continuous white
water vapour.

Why not wait until bongoburt reports back and then re-consider your options.

I'll have to wait anyway Ben, its one thing lying on your back under a bongo to replace the stat - its quite another having to dig a snow hole to do it

When the bongo is up to temperature (with the stat in) there is a small but steady stream of air coming out when I try to bleed it - a small bubble every second or so. It just doesn't stop. I'm assuming its getting pumped in from the cylinders, so although the gap is very small, the pressure is very high. So I thought removing the pressure while the gap sealed would be a good idea.

[Bongoburt]

A very late happy new year to everyone and sorry for the delay, I posted just before christmas that I had put a bottle of Steel Seal in my bongo,
I mixed it with the antifreeze and fed it through the bleed pipe warmed the engine up to normal temp then let it cool down for an hour. I did this three times then went for the big bleed AGAIN, once all the air was out I started driving around keeping a regular check on the coolant level. Steel Seal say on the bottle "do not use if you are losing more than one quart of coolant every five mins out of the tail pipe" I have been losing two litres on a ten mile journey, So Did it Work?????
Well I have done about 350 miles and the coolant level HAS NOT DROPPED ONE MILL, So-so far it has WORKED.

[mikeonb4c]

A very late happy new year to everyone and sorry for the delay, I posted just before christmas that I had put a bottle of Steel Seal in my bongo,
I mixed it with the antifreeze and fed it through the bleed pipe warmed the engine up to normal temp then let it cool down for an hour. I did this three times then went for the big bleed AGAIN, once all the air was out I started driving around keeping a regular check on the coolant level. Steel Seal say on the bottle "do not use if you are losing more than one quart of coolant every five mins out of the tail pipe" I have been losing two litres on a ten mile journey, So Did it Work?????
Well I have done about 350 miles and the coolant level HAS NOT DROPPED ONE MILL, So-so far it has WORKED.

fingers remain crossed for you dude

[wishmaster]

I hope it'll be a Happy New Year for you BongoBurt, fingers crossed the Steel Seal will do the trick. Sometimes when big bills and problems loom needs must

Good Luck

Iz