Bongo Cooling system

[kelv]

The Bongo originally came without a coolant alarm and they were built for, and sold in, a mountainous country where the cooling system would be hard pressed. Especially when the Bongo was being used in it's people carrier capacity carrying 6 or more people, some who may have been Sumo wrestlers

Many vehicles run for more than 15 years without the need for supplementary alarms on their coolant system, but today, many Bongo owners fit coolant alarms.


Maybe the Bongo had a weak system to start with, maybe not.
Maybe alarms are fitted just to make sure.
Maybe they are now considered a necessity due to ageing.
I think this is an an interesting technical debating point.
There does not have to be a concensus agreement, or difinitive answer.
Personally, I think the alarm systems may be a useful gadget, but also that they may be cause "alarm" when it's not needed.
Individual choice whether or not to fit, and that's fine.
I am also interested on views about the design and performance cabability of the Mazda cooling system.
To me, it seems there may be some weakness in it's function.
Whether that is down to design or age,probably too late to say unless a comparison could be done with a brand new Bongo system.
What's your view

[scanner]

The Bongo was also designed for and used in a country where it's foibles were presumably known about by lots of garages - Japan is also a country with a virtually non-existent s/hand car market due to it's complicated, stringent and increasingly (with age of vehicle) expensive registration and testing system.

So Bongos were presumably originally bought and used by people who knew exactly what they were getting and were prepared to have them maintained by main dealers who knew exactly how to look after them - not by some backstreet Johnnie and his dog who refuse to be told that certain things MUST be done in a certain way.
Lots of important things are hidden away on a Bongo and if adding a fairly cheap alarm helps to make remembering to check those items easier surely that's worth serious consideration.

Nobody is forcing you to fit anything - so don't worry.

[dandywarhol]

My view is that the system works just fine if properly maintained. If it hasn't had to coolant changed at regular intervals during its life in Japan then you're asking for trouble.

The minimum checks a new owner can do is to check for cold spots/blockage through silt buildup in the radiator and matrices, pressurise the system up to 1 BAR and a thorough check of the hoses/pipes.

An alarm is just another aid - don't rely on it alone.

Maybe we can get an opinion from the Great Pretender to get the ball really rolling on this topic

[BongoMTBer]

I believe it's fine if maintained correctly. It really is that simple.

However, the plumbing is the work of the devil, so if any rectification is carried out then it needs to be followed by careful bleeding.

[missfixit70]

People buy the bongo cos of all it's little gadgets & twiddly bits, this includes front & rear ac which along with the fact it's mid engined, makes for a very complicated cooling system. If you want simple go buy something simple, I like the bongo because of the fact it's mid engined & rear wheel drive & has all the silly features & I'm prepared to take the necessary precautions. Every vehicle has "weaker" aspects as it ages, especially without correct maintenance, as already stated, better to be aware, than caught out
I'm off to bed now - play nicely

[mikeonb4c]

'Well Man' Clinics are recommended for older men. Nuff said I reckon

[Alison01326]

not by some backstreet Johnnie and his dog who refuse to be told that certain things MUST be done in a certain way.

Have just enquiried of my usual garage whether they would be prepared to tackle a coolant change etc on the Bongo and asked whether they had done one before. Apologetically explained that it had to be done a certain way, and reminded the mechanic that I have let him service and repair my old car for six years without ever telling him how to do his job. He was sounding a bit peeved at me when he said "Why do you need your coolant changed?". When I replied that I believe it is recommended that it is done every two years and that I don't know when (or if) it has ever been changed as I can't translate any of the paperwork I have, his tone changed completely from peeved to helpful (presumably realising his faux pas).

Whilst there are many people on this forum who really know their stuff, mechanically, and know every inch of their Bongo, having worked on it themselves, there are many more like myself who don't. All of the second hand cars I have owned in the past (just two of them - the last one was a new 'un) have had a complete service history in English. I have bought locally and could in fact have returned to any of the garages who had done the work in the past and ask questions if a problem arose related to a particular repair, there were main dealers locally too and the cars were still in production. Admittedly, without this forum I would not know about overheating problems or alarms and may or may not have Bongoed into the next decaed without a problem but I am always happy to listen to the "voice of experience", or collective voices of owners who have had their Bongos for longer, or who have encountered problems, etc, etc and in the case of the cooling system, I have read the various discussions or accounts of negative incidents and drawn my own conclusion on how to protect my investment - which it is - as I see the Bongo not only as my main means of getting about, but also our annual family holiday, weekends away and days out.

We all spend hundreds of pounds on various insurance policies, but this form of insurance, in the way of alarms and careful observation and maintenance, costs little in comparison and if they do their job and I play my part in maintaining the system, no holidays will be wrecked, no vast sums will be disappearing from my bank account for replacement bits and we won't be stuck without a vehicle.

Here endeth the view of someone whose mechanical competence ends at fixing a 118cc 2 stroke motorbike engine and whose time and inclination in all things mechanical end at weekly checks and a good relationship with the local garage (so far, anyway - wait till they've done the coolant next Friday!)

[scanner]

'Well Man' Clinics are recommended for older men. Nuff said I reckon

I hear they can have complicated plumbing as well - prone to blockages etc. - yet they were similarly relatively problem free when newer.

[kelv]

'Well Man' Clinics are recommended for older men. Nuff said I reckon

I hear they can have complicated plumbing as well - prone to blockages etc. - yet they were similarly relatively problem free when newer.

So, there could be a case developing for fitting a new rad and hoses, and a new waterpump when you become Bongo owner ?
Surely this would set the system up in a robust way.
It may cost more initially than just fitting an alarm on an old system that is likely to fail if what you say is right.
On the other hand, if components are replaced anyway when they fail,as indicated by the alarm, maybe it would not cost more?
The alarm fitting, on a rebuilt system, would seem almost pointless based upon this view?
Any views?
I am considering what to do here based upon valued technical answers from experienced owners, and have not formed a final opinion either way ............yet.

[missfixit70]

As already stated endlessly on this forum Kelv, the ideal is to replace the hoses, pipes, rad, stat, maybe waterpump, but in reality, who can afford to? & is it really necessary? Once the new parts are fitted, can they be guaranteed not to fail or have leaks in the refitting?
By fitting the coolant alarm, high temp alarms, Mason alarms you are fitting insurance. For the less mechanically competent or aware especially, I'd personally recommend as a minimum the coolant & Mason alarm. For those more mechanically minded - it's your choice.
This does not replace maintenance, renewal, & inspection & a dose of common sense, but does give a great peace of mind & covers most eventualities.
Just an example for you, prior to fitting my coolant alarm I had checked my hoses & levels, all ok. 2 days later I had occasion to lift the drivers seat, can't remember why, but in those 2 days the top hose had swollen & developed a pinprick, very lucky as there is no way I would have checked hoses or the coolant levels on a daily or "every trip" basis as the coolant alarm does.
I replaced the main hoses that were known to cause problems there & then with silicon hoses, fitted a coolant & Mason alarm & then when I could afford the time, energy & money, I replaced the rest of the hoses (17 of in total) & stat after a complete & thorough chemical flush & rad backflush. If I could afford it, I'd probably replace the rad, but it has to wait in the list of roundtuits & whenIcanaffordit's

[francophile1947]

I've had cooling system failures on cars less than 3 years old (bottom pipe to radiator cracked where it joined the radiator) so, although you can replace everything, and shouldn't have any problems, I like the sense of reasonable security of the low-coolant alarm - you just never know when something can go wrong.
The alarm also saved my old Bongo, when I forgot to put the pressure cap back on

[kelv]

This is all very interesting.
However :
Having driven probably 30 different ages and types of car, over 30 years and many miles, I have never yet had a coolant leak or an overheating engine.
I know you will say "there is always a first time ", and I agree with you.
What I can't fathom, is particularly why that first time, is likely to be on a Bongo, unless there is a particular weakness in the system, caused by age or design.
And, if there is a particular weakness in the system, then maybe it would be better to fix the weakness, rather than fitting an alarm to highlight the weakness.
I understand the "value" of a coolant alarm, but also understand the value of a robust system to start with, before fitting such an alarm.
Your views are appreciated.

[missfixit70]

[scanner]

There, there, Kirsty I know that feels good, but just leave it for now - just wait for his first "overheated what do I do now?" post.

Strange - he's got the same first initial as another "alarm sceptic".

Gone - not missed but not forgotten.

[mikeonb4c]

This is all very interesting.
However :
Having driven probably 30 different ages and types of car, over 30 years and many miles, I have never yet had a coolant leak or an overheating engine.
I know you will say "there is always a first time ", and I agree with you.
What I can't fathom, is particularly why that first time, is likely to be on a Bongo, unless there is a particular weakness in the system, caused by age or design.
And, if there is a particular weakness in the system, then maybe it would be better to fix the weakness, rather than fitting an alarm to highlight the weakness.
I understand the "value" of a coolant alarm, but also understand the value of a robust system to start with, before fitting such an alarm.
Your views are appreciated.

Its a perfectly reasonable line of argument (and of course you are seeing a predominance of 'hardcore' Bongo owners on here, not so much the average ignorant non-techie campervan owner - they sometime turn up in bewilderment and seeking advice when they'v suffered a cooked engine due to coolant loss etc.). Two things spring to mind that set Bongo ownership apart from the average car and thus make insurance more relevant:

1) If the average old banger should happen to cook its head, you'd shrug and scrap it. Its quite clear it is both valueless and easily replaced. In contrast, a good Bongo retains its value and is much less easily replaced. So you are much more likely to fee obliged to spend to mend. Fine (ish) if you have the dosh, but bad news if you don't

2) The Bongo plumbing, and the heat retention issues with the mid mounted engine, is not comparable to most standard cars so comparisons with them are not worth much.

Incidentally, the low coolant alarm has proved just as valuable to those with new hoses as there has been more than one instance of a new (silicon) hose not sealing properly, resulting in coolant loss.

Hope this helps