Over heating problems ... Throwing good money after bad

[kelv]

Maybe, if they do any more work for you, it would be fair to withold payment for 30 days, in order to make sure that their work is satisfactory.
£3800 so far, and no working engine seems a poor result regarding their performance.

[wislon]

Out of interest, if I was to sell the It in its current condition, what would your estimates be on its value?

Its a 1996 Ford Fredie, it has :-

* electric windows/blinds/lifting roof
* 78000 miles
* DVD/CD/Bluetooth hands free/rear view camera stereo
* Thatcham immobiliser/Alarm
* Remote operated central locking
* its been under sealed.
* rest of van is good clean condition.
* 6 months MOT

I payed £7,500 in 2007, right now If someone would give me £3000 for it as is, then I'd be inclined let them have it.

[missfixit70]

In it's current state you'd be lucky to get £1k for it IMO, unknown ongoing cooling issues, prices have dropped anyway, you can get a good aft of that age for £3-4k now
I know it's not what you want to hear, but you asked.

[waycar8]

if the front rad was blocked then theres a very good chance the rear heater matrix is also blocked, maybe worth asking the garage to take it off and try have a look.

I agree with Kirsty, you wont get no where near 3k for a bongo with issues in this climate, there was a very tidy one went for £1500 with a cracked head about a month back on Ebay, but it was mint , inside and out, quite a few extras inc aftermarket acesesories which go for a pricey sum on ebay on there own.

Good luck anyhow

[kelv]

£1000
cash waiting.

( do the sums )
Value of Bongo as is = £1k
Engine cost = ?
Value of Bongo with new engine = £3800


Then decide what to do.

Values have droppped recently. I just bought an R plate AFT diesel Bongo with side conversion for £4450.
Has some slight rust on the usual places, but engine OK at the moment.
To buy it I sold a mint condition X reg Octavia 1.8 turbo petrol with leather and aircon, 35,000 miles, for £1100
OK, I might be insane .........................

[mikeonb4c]

I have deliberately not mention the dealer in question in hope that they will eventually redeem them selves, however if I have no satisfactory out come and I`m force into legal action I`ll be sure to let you all know who you should be avoiding.

Very sensible. No pointing in making things worse. It is quite posisble they are very uncomfortable over what has happened but - when push comes to shove - don't have the money to give back to you. It is just possible though that - handled correctly - they may agree to redo the work to get it right without trying to impose further labour charges, only charging for parts (at cost). But that thought might best be presented in a solicitors letter that engages their thinking to the idea that this would be the least painful alternative for them. After all, you are already suffering considerable pain from our relationship with them.

[kelv]

I have deliberately not mention the dealer in question in hope that they will eventually redeem them selves, however if I have no satisfactory out come and I`m force into legal action I`ll be sure to let you all know who you should be avoiding.

Very sensible. No pointing in making things worse. It is quite posisble they are very uncomfortable over what has happened but - when push comes to shove - don't have the money to give back to you. It is just possible though that - handled correctly - they may agree to redo the work to get it right without trying to impose further labour charges, only charging for parts (at cost). But that thought might best be presented in a solicitors letter that engages their thinking to the idea that this would be the least painful alternative for them. After all, you are already suffering considerable pain from our relationship with them.

Fair enough, all that Mike.
But, the way I see it they have cost the guy £3800 already and not got it right !
I would be pushing for a part refund as well as a repair.
In fact, because they have messed up I would go for a refund of half my money, and then take it elsewhere to have fixed, using that money.
You are too leniant.
Or maybe I am just nuts

[mikeonb4c]

I have deliberately not mention the dealer in question in hope that they will eventually redeem them selves, however if I have no satisfactory out come and I`m force into legal action I`ll be sure to let you all know who you should be avoiding.

Very sensible. No pointing in making things worse. It is quite posisble they are very uncomfortable over what has happened but - when push comes to shove - don't have the money to give back to you. It is just possible though that - handled correctly - they may agree to redo the work to get it right without trying to impose further labour charges, only charging for parts (at cost). But that thought might best be presented in a solicitors letter that engages their thinking to the idea that this would be the least painful alternative for them. After all, you are already suffering considerable pain from our relationship with them.

Fair enough, all that Mike.
But, the way I see it they have cost the guy £3800 already and not got it right !
I would be pushing for a part refund as well as a repair.
In fact, because they have messed up I would go for a refund of half my money, and then take it elsewhere to have fixed, using that money.
You are too leniant.
Or maybe I am just nuts

Not lenient, just trying to suggest pragmatism. The solicitors letter is designed to make it clear it is 'an offer they cannot refuse' as the Godfather would say. Iron fist in velvet glove principle. Thats the theory anyway.

[wislon]

What I failed to mention in the original post is that the reason this has dragged on so long is that it has taken them over a month each time to fix the vehicle.

In answer to the question of "Do I want to own it any more, the answer is a definite No".

Having slept on the matter I have been trying to find a win win solution for both me and the dealer ( who is listed as a recommended dealer on BF ).

If I spend any more money on the vehicle it will end up be worth less than what i have paid to have it fixed ( this suggests to me its a right off ).

So far the dealer has made a reasonable profit off me for both the sale of the vehicle and the work done to it, where as I`m in the hole for £12K. I would like to redress the balance a little bit.

I'm going to ask the dealer to buy the vehicle off me for the value of the repair work that I have spent with him, £3,800. This way I get to walk away from the problem and he gets the vehicle which he should be able to repair and still make further money on them.

He should be able to sell the van for £5K up here ( the may be cheaper down south but up here in Scotland there still a little hard to come by, AutoTrader has three similar vehicles listed for between £5-6K ).

If he is not willing then my only other option is to sue for the full cost of the vehicle and work done, £12K. I REALLY don't what the hassle of court time and solicitors ( which I have insurance to cover the cost of ) however this would be my only option. I believe I have good case as the original fault found by the RAC guy is a common fault which is listed in the over heating fact sheet ( a worn hole in the water bleed pipe due to missing clip and pipe rubbing on body work ) which should have been spotted when the vehicle was imported.

I'll let you know how I get on.

Thanks for all the posts they've been a real help.

[stilldesperate]

Hi Wislon,

I can't know the stress you've gone through, but, before writing-off both the Bongo, and a large amount of money, please consider the following:

1. You have legal insurance. One (paid for) trip to a solicitor will start the ball rolling, it's amazing what impact solicitors letters have, there may well be a result from this alone.

2. Tell the solicitor about your desparation about this - they can shield you from most of the hassle in contating the dealer, and claims for stress can only strengthen your case.

3. Don't let the dealer get away with shoddy service, pass on a dodgy motor to the next buyer, and keep their listing as a recommended garage.

You talk about a win-win situation - why should you let the dealer win any more from you?

SD

[haydn callow]

if the front rad was blocked then theres a very good chance the rear heater matrix is also blocked, maybe worth asking the garage to take it off and try have a look.

I agree with Kirsty, you wont get no where near 3k for a bongo with issues in this climate, there was a very tidy one went for £1500 with a cracked head about a month back on Ebay, but it was mint , inside and out, quite a few extras inc aftermarket acesesories which go for a pricey sum on ebay on there own.

Good luck anyhow

would the rear heater being blocked cause a problem to the rest of the cooling system.....as I understand it the heaters are on a bypass system and so should not affect the engine cooling.

[mikeonb4c]

Hi Wislon,

I can't know the stress you've gone through, but, before writing-off both the Bongo, and a large amount of money, please consider the following:

1. You have legal insurance. One (paid for) trip to a solicitor will start the ball rolling, it's amazing what impact solicitors letters have, there may well be a result from this alone.

2. Tell the solicitor about your desparation about this - they can shield you from most of the hassle in contating the dealer, and claims for stress can only strengthen your case.

3. Don't let the dealer get away with shoddy service, pass on a dodgy motor to the next buyer, and keep their listing as a recommended garage.

You talk about a win-win situation - why should you let the dealer win any more from you?

SD

I agree very much with SD. Your idea is the beginning of a possiblly very good win/win strategy, but you need the solicitor for the reasons he states, and as a sounding board for your proposals. The dealer needs to be reminded (which the solicitor should be able to do) that it will be more expensive not to do right by you (disruption while they deal with a claim, reputational damage etc.) than it will to do right by you. They are already on public trial albeit it 'in camera' and the gallery is watching to see how they handle this one. You should not go quietly into the night. Good luck - we're behind you

[francophile1947]

would the rear heater being blocked cause a problem to the rest of the cooling system.....as I understand it the heaters are on a bypass system and so should not affect the engine cooling.

Interesting I always thought the heater rads did most of the cooling, which is why the thermostat rarely seems to open in normal running. If so, the heater rads are probably kept a lot clearer than the main rad, because the coolant is constantly moving through them.

[waycar8]

if the front rad was blocked then theres a very good chance the rear heater matrix is also blocked, maybe worth asking the garage to take it off and try have a look.

I agree with Kirsty, you wont get no where near 3k for a bongo with issues in this climate, there was a very tidy one went for £1500 with a cracked head about a month back on Ebay, but it was mint , inside and out, quite a few extras inc aftermarket acesesories which go for a pricey sum on ebay on there own.

Good luck anyhow

would the rear heater being blocked cause a problem to the rest of the cooling system.....as I understand it the heaters are on a bypass system and so should not affect the engine cooling.

Not sure about the bypass system as I understand it, the rear heater matrix is part of the system which has a constant flow going around, thus using the hot coolant for warmth when the blowers are on including the rear rad. If it was or had a bypass system then surely you wouldnt be able to bleed it properly without getting air trapped in the system?

So if theres any blockage there then this will disrupt the flow around the entire system which imo would cause the pump to work harder causing either the pump to fail or cause premature failure, or maybe even make the seals go prematurely leading to an overheated engine.

I think YBB had an overheating issue which turned out the cause was the rear heater matrix that was blocked, new rear matrix fixed the problem.

This is how i understand it anyhow, might be wrong but it makes sense to me

[missfixit70]

I have to agree with Haydn on this one, removal or blockage of the rear heater matrix should not affect the cooling system too much, it is a bypass or add on.

If you look at where the two arrows are, if you were to turn those joints into elbows rather than t-pieces, thus eliminating the rear heater from the circuit, if anything, I reckon it would work more efficiently, making the rad do more cooling thus beter flow, thus less chance of sludging up.
Bongos were produced with no rear heater, I'd be surprised if they provided a bypass loop instead, i recon they'd connect it as I've described. Could be wrong though