Choosing a leisure battery

[al & chris]

We would recommend elecsol 100 carbon battery we bought one last year from Tanya. Does not matter if it runs down and holds charge very well.

[mikeonb4c]

We would recommend elecsol 100 carbon battery we bought one last year from Tanya. Does not matter if it runs down and holds charge very well.

That sounds interesting (for a leisure battery presumably?). What is it about 'carbon' batteries? Do they have some special property. I noticed some when browsing t'internet the other night. They seemed dearer but the vendor didn't explain why it was worth paying the extra

[helen&tony]

Hi
Leisure batteries aren't available over here....one of life's necessities as far as I'm concerned, so I'm now looking at using fork-lift truck traction batteries...they use plenty of those over here. They might be worth a look instead of ordinary batteries, as they obviously take a lot of punishment.
Cheers
Helen

[Alison01326]

Wow! Thank you all. Likely to be going for a marine battery at this stage as it looks like a good option and availability in Falmouth is considerably greater than camping ones, carbon ones and fork lift truck ones. However, will consider all the options before rushing off to the nearest chandler.

Can't wait to know enough about something Bongo related to be able to be of assistance to others.

Thanks again.

[stilldesperate]

Can't wait to know enough about something Bongo related to be able to be of assistance to others.

Thanks again.

You could do a Bongo weather report for when I'm down that way!

SD

[stilldesperate]

Just found this on another forum, read Sailormans posting, very informative!

http://www.ybw.com/forums/showflat.php?Number=2029554

SD

[mikeonb4c]

Just found this on another forum, read Sailormans posting, very informative!

http://www.ybw.com/forums/showflat.php?Number=2029554

SD

An excellent read & thanks

Unless I missed something, he STILL doesn't say whether a car starter battery or a leisure battery is best. Its as though he lumps them all together as thin plate lead/acid batteries

[patnben]

Unless I missed something, he STILL doesn't say whether a car starter battery or a leisure battery is best. Its as though he lumps them all together as thin plate lead/acid batteries.

To put it simply, the only difference between a starter battery and a leisure battery is the
thickness of the plates. A starter battery requires very thin plates to provide sufficient
surface area to give a high cold cranking current for a short period. A leisure battery has
much thicker plates which reduces the maximum instantaneous current available but allows
the battery to discharge to a much lower level without damaging the plates due to buckling.

A starter battery should not be discharged below about 65% to 7o% of it's total capacity
otherwise it's life will decrease due to stresses on the plates which cause buckling and
eventual short circuit. A leisure battery can be discharged to about 35% of it's capacity
without much damage to the plates.

As an example, a 100 Amp hour starter battery can deliver approximately 35 A/hours and
remain within it's expected service life. A 100 A/hour leisure battery can deliver about
65 A/hrs without charging and still remain within it's expected service life.

So the choice is, buy a reputable split charge system with a leisure type battery, or use
2 starter batteries simply connected in parallel with high current cable. For the split
charge system you have about 65 A/hrs usage before charging, whereas with 2 starter
batteries in parallel you would have ( 2 x 35 ) 70 A/hours use before recharging and the
Bongo would still start more reliably than a single starter battery. The problem is that it
requires some common sense to ensure that you don't blindly use all the power available
for leisure use. The advantage is when you use the Bongo for domestic use the Bongo
will always start virtually instantaneously in the most severe conditions. I have done
this for years without any problems, but then I always use a mains hookup when camping.
If you have a Bongo with the factory fitted winter pack, then you could use it as it is but
I would advise you buy a cheap battery charger and pay for EHU until you get used to it.

The trouble with using a split charge system is that if you completely discharge the leisure
battery and the VSR cuts in when the engine is running, the alternator could deliver up to
80 Amps to the leisure battery if the starter battery was fully charged. You must fit adequately
rated VSR relays and fuses to cope with these extreme conditions. If you regularly go wild
camping without EHU you may be safer to use a split charge system to avoid discharging
both starter batteries to the extent that you cannot start the Bongo.

Apologies for the long ramble and probably useless information, but at my age I don't sleep
much and have little else to do.

[Ron Miel]

We would recommend elecsol 100 carbon battery we bought one last year from Tanya. Does not matter if it runs down and holds charge very well.

We've got the same Elecsol 100, which so far (4 months) has performed extremely well. They are sealed/no maintenance lead acid batteries, with carbon fibre structures added internally to brace and protect the plates. They are guaranteed for 5 years in any application, and claim that the carbon fibre structure gives them an ability to withstand 3 times more deep discharge cycles than other leisure batteries - plus makes them equally suitable for engine cranking (375 amps CCA cold cranking for the 100Ah battery) with a reduced risk of plate buckling compared with ANY other battery. 278x175x190mm. 16.5kg. £99 RRP.

[stilldesperate]

Apologies for the long ramble and probably useless information, but at my age I don't sleep
much and have little else to do.

On the contrary, Patnben, an interesting read. I've not studied the split charge system on the factory kitchen unit (I assume it is ) but are you saying that (most/all?) split chargers simply isolate the leisure battery, and, when charging, give the full alternator output to the LB?

I'm just fitting a couple of solar panels on the roof, so hoping that, with the LB kept a bit more charged, I can avoid that huge current into it when charging off the alternator.

SD

[mikeonb4c]

Excellent PatnBen (not boring at all) and Ron Miel (whose post has sold me on getting an elecsol type battery when I replace mine)

I have a VSR with fuse protection so it doesn't deliver over 27 amps before protective fuse blows, and I'm coming to think this might be a blessing in diguise in protecting the leisure battery from a traumatic charge when it is deeply discharged.

[g8dhe]

a VSR with fuse protection so it doesn't deliver over 27 amps before protective fuse blows,

Just as a safety point for people fitting there own VSR devices there should be TWO fuses one at each battery to protect the cable(s) running to the relay, even if the relay is fitted very close to a battery terminal (i.e. mounted on the terminal itself) then the fuse should be fitted directly after the relay, and the other fuse close to the other battery.

Something else to be aware of is that fuses are there to protect the CABLE not the device (Battery,electronics etc.).
Modern automotive fuses are rated at the current at which they will blow, that is not the same for all fuses however so don't apply that meaning in other situations, otherwise you might get an nasty surprise! Other fuses may be rated at the continuous safe current, the blowing current can be between 2 and 20 times that value !!

See these two references for more information;
Wikipedia
Automotive series

[patnben]

All good valid points g8dhe, and well worth including in this particular topic.

stilldesperate, as a leisure battery has a higher internal resistance than a
starter battery, I doubt if it would get close to the maximum alternator
output, especially as the starter battery would still be in parallel with the
leisure battery. But to add to the confusion the starter battery would probably
be discharging into the leisure battery if it were fully charged.

However, I have a DC clamp meter and out of interest I measured a leisure
battery charge current on a couple of Autosleepers I have owned, and under
the extreme conditions mentioned previously, a 100 A/hour leisure battery
was drawing just over 60 Amps. I think it took about 20 minutes or so to
reduce the charge rate to less than 30 Amps.

About 3 years ago at the annual Stourport Bash, a member on the non
electric field had run his leisure battery down to virtually empty. When he
started the engine to charge the battery, it was impossible to charge the
leisure battery as it was fitted with a 30 Amp VSR with 30 Amp fuses. I
was reluctant to bypass the inline fuse so I removed the battery and used
my trusty old 15 Amp mains charger to charge the battery at full output for
a couple of hours.

When the battery was replaced, the charge current had reduced and the
fuses no longer went pop. All's well that ends well but I think his first job
when he got home was to replace the system with uprated equipment,
or he said he was going to, I haven't seen him since.

Ben.

[stilldesperate]

Thanks, Ben,

My thinking is that the LB would stay reasonably charged with the solar panels (meagre) output, thus avoiding the surge from the alternator when first run.

I did wonder about current-limiting the supply, but that's for another day!

SD

[patnben]

SD

Good thinking with regard to the solar panels.

It could prove to be very expensive to limit the charge supply and
limiting the output to liesure equipment would result in reduced voltage
at the limiting point and play havoc with electronic equipment.

You haven't said if you've checked the current rating of the VSR and
fuse(s). If it was done by a reputable conversion firm it should be up
to the proper standards and you need to do nothing, if not it would
not be expensive to uprate the VSR, fuses and charge cables, and you
could easily do it yourself in a couple of hours.

Most knowledgable members on the forum recommend Willington on Ebay
and I know he is a trusted supplier.

Let us know the outcome of your investigations.

Ben.