Coolant Infomation (you may not know)

[haydn callow]

The info given below is 'Hot' from the Engine Saver laboratories in Oz

The subject of coolants is one which I am constantly involved in.

There is no such thing as "Red" coolant and "Green" coolant any more.

There are generally OAT, organic acid technology coolants, or organic additive coolants and glycol based coolants.

They can be any colour of the rainbow and the manufacturers make all sorts of claims, such as "can be mixed with any coolant"

Mix two of the incompatible ones and you will turn your coolant into acid,
which will eat your radiator, cylinder head and alloy parts.

Some of the latest types will eat the solder in copper radiators as they are designed to be used in alloy systems with plastic tanks with no solder or copper present.

The subject has even got so specialised now that there are acidic and alkaline flush products to be used depending on which type of coolant you used last.

The moral of the story?

When you vehicle is serviced, make sure they use the coolant type originally specified for your vehicle.

Not the colour.

AND if the coolant type IS changed, make sure a complete, thorough flush is performed.

A quick check a week after a change is done is to remove the header tank or radiator tank cap and wipe a finger around under the rim.
If it comes out grey or black you have a big problem.

If you have a low coolant alarm and it starts to go off for the first 5 to 10 minutes a few weeks after work has been done on the cooling system, do the finger wipe test as many workshops and garages are not as aware of the potential problems regarding coolant mixing as they should be.

The low coolant alarm probe will detect this grey/ black deposit straight away

The probe will need cleaning if this happens.

[helen&tony]

Hi
Very interesting. I always stick to the Glycol types, and I am aware of the two major differences, but this new info. on the type that interferes with solder is a proper eye-opener. I replaced my rad. recently, and opted for a full metal unit in preference to the plastic type....out of good old-fashioned mistrust of the sealants employed.
It's not just an alarm we're getting folks, but after -market info
Cheers
Helen

[haydn callow]

A bit of info regarding Radiators
Maintaining the coolant will go a long ways toward prolonging the life of the radiator and other components in the cooling system. But if the coolant isn’t maintained, corrosion will eventually take over and attack the innards of the system. The most vulnerable components are the radiator and heater core, especially lead-soldered copper/brass heat exchangers in older vehicles. But aluminum radiators and heater cores are vulnerable to attack, too.

Lack of maintenance can also allow a buildup of rust and scale that can clog a radiator or heater core. Heat exchangers with extremely small passageways are especially susceptible to this kind of problem. Once clogged, heat exchangers are difficult to clean and replacement is usually necessary.

The average service life of an OEM copper/brass radiator is six to 10 years, and eight to 12 for aluminum. But even with good care, radiators can fail for a variety of reasons including vibration, mechanical stress and physical damage. Fatigue cracks can occur where the inlet and outlet fittings connect to end tanks, along tank/tube header connections, or where the radiator support brackets attach to the radiator.

Excessive heat can kill a radiator, too. Ones with plastic end tanks can be damaged by steam erosion if the coolant level becomes low and the engine overheats. White deposits on the inside of the plastic tank would indicate steam damage

[scanner]

The very points I've been trying to make and the point that you can't even rely on the colour to know what type of coolant you are putting in is truly, truly frightening.

It's now clear why so many vehicles (not just Bongos) have cooling problems these days.

So is the only solution ( - sorry about the pun) to either:-

Do a complete flush/change and buy enough coolant concentrate to (hopefully) last until the next flush/change.

or

Use one of the Universal "will mix with any other coolant" types and hope it does do what it says on the tin.

[missfixit70]

Complete flush is the only way to go IMO, unless you're sure you know what you put in & can get the same stuff again - not relying on colour of course

[haydn callow]

And bit more info:-

Check The Strength
Checking the strength of the coolant to determine the concentration of antifreeze in the coolant is just as important for hot weather driving as it is for cold weather. A 50/50 mixture of ethylene glycol (EG) antifreeze and water will provide boiling protection up to about 255° with a 15 psi cap, and freezing protection down to -34° F. By comparison, a 50/50 mixture of propylene glycol (PG) antifreeze and water will provide boiling protection to 257° F and freezing protection to -26° F.

Increasing the concentration of antifreeze in the coolant will raise its boiling temperature and lower its freezing point. Even so, the maximum concentration of antifreeze should usually be limited to 65% to 70% because too much antifreeze and not enough water reduces the coolant’s ability to carry heat - which increases the risk of overheating in hot weather.



Something else to keep in mind is that EG and PG antifreezes have slightly different specific gravities (densities), so be sure you use the correct type of hydrometer, refractometer or test strip when checking the coolant.

Check The Condition
You can’t judge the condition of the coolant by appearances alone. It may look like new, but if the chemistry isn’t right the coolant can be a potential time bomb just waiting to cause problems.

Most antifreeze is about 95% ethylene glycol by weight, with the remainder being corrosion inhibitors and other additives. Time and heat eventually deplete the protective additives, leaving the system vulnerable to internal corrosion. Ethylene glycol never wears out, but the additives do so that’s why the coolant needs to be changed or recycled after so many miles. Keeping the coolant up to snuff is especially important for vehicles with bimetal engines (iron block and aluminum heads) and those with aluminum radiators because aluminum corrodes more quickly than iron when the coolant chemistry turns sour.

The old rule of changing the coolant every two years or 30,000 miles is still valid for "conventional" green and yellow coolants. But the same also applies to systems filled with long-life coolant that may have been contaminated with conventional coolant. If long-life and conventional antifreeze are intermixed, the interaction between the additive packages can reduce the life of the long-life antifreeze from five years/150,000 miles down to that of ordinary antifreeze.

Unfortunately, it’s difficult to tell if a system filled with long-life antifreeze has been topped off or intermixed with ordinary antifreeze. Dex-Cool in General Motors vehicles is dyed orange to distinguish it from ordinary coolant, but it takes a lot of green or yellow coolant to produce a noticeable change in color. If in doubt, it’s always safer to err on the side of caution and go with the shorter service interval.

The best way to check the condition of antifreeze is with a chemical test strip that shows how much reserve alkalinity (which prevents corrosion) is left in the coolant. The test strip changes color when dipped in the coolant, allowing you to compare the color against a reference chart to determine the coolant’s condition. If the coolant tests bad or is close to borderline, replace or recycle it

[scanner]

I'll repeat my earlier question in a previous thread..............


Can you get an air-cooled engine to fit in the Bongo?

[haydn callow]

Of course you can..Chevy air cooled 6 cylinder flat twin as fitted to the 1964 Chevey Corvair. Just drops in.

[scanner]

Of course you can..Chevy air cooled 6 cylinder flat twin as fitted to the 1964 Chevey Corvair. Just drops in.

If it's a flat six I think I'll go for the Porsche Turbo 6 or even better this one - don't know what it would do for Bongo MPG though.
http://www.pbase.com/917carl/917_12_cyl_engine&page=4

[scanner]

Just noticed - what is a 6 cylinder flat twin exactly

Would it be that flat 12cylinder by any chance?

[haydn callow]

well done !!! you just passed the test I set for you. The Chevy Corvair was built to race the air cooled Porsche. Elvis biught one for Pricilla.
I had one for a few years and restored it. Went like hell but was a death trap. No weight at the front..Front tires only 16PSI. Ralph Nader finally killed it off co's so many kids were killing themselves in them.
Lovely car...just needed to know how to drive it.
The air cooling fan was above the engine so the Fan belt went over a couple of extra pulleys that changed it's direction 90 degrees and this put a 90degree twist in as well.

[francophile1947]

Just noticed - what is a 6 cylinder flat twin exactly

Would it be that flat 12cylinder by any chance?

Only if they were conjoined twins

[B*Witched Blingo]

So where do we get test strips and where do we dip. Is the bottle thingie ok?

[scanner]

The air cooling fan was above the engine so the Fan belt went over a couple of extra pulleys that changed it's direction 90 degrees and this put a 90degree twist in as well.

Some Peugeots (305 I think) were similar to that.

A transverse engine that had an engine driven fan behind a front mounted rad.

Soon after that they decided an electric fan was a way better idea.


Yup - 305

The 305's XR-coded petrol engine was a forward-sloping transverse unit, with the gearbox sharing engine oil. It had a chain-driven camshaft and still had a rather outdated and unusual belt-drive system for the ancillaries. The radiator fan was belt driven, using a electro-magnetic clutch to engage itself at higher temperatures. It was mounted at the front, whereas the alternator was mounted on the side of the engine. To overcome the problem of driving all the ancillaries, the fan belt was driven around two runners which allowed it's operation to turn through 90 degrees - thus the large belt ran around the corner of the engine, operating the fan directly. Although incredibly interesting, this system was criticised for it's complexity and power-sapping abilities. Most modern cars of the time had switched to using electric fans, so it seemed strange that Peugeot had not adopted this design move.

[patnben]

ChellandAndy, further to Haydn's excellent posts.

The pH of any anti-freeze should always be above pH 7.
Anything above pH 7 is alkaline, and anything below
pH 7 is acidic. Pure distilled water is pH 7.

The additives in anti-freeze are there to maintain the
strength of the solution into the alkaline region, but
the strength will deteriorate over time until the pH
value goes below 7 and is acidic.

A new flush and fill of glycol anti-freeze should be
around pH 8 whereas long life anti-freeze can be as
high as pH 9 or more.

Test strips are a reliable way of testing the pH
value. When dipped in a cold solution they will change
colour; and a colour scale is usually supplied with
the strips to indicate the pH value. You can also use
an expensive pH meter to test the value.

It's important to test the pH at least once a year to
ensure that the solution does not become acidic and
corrosive, some garages ignore this and only test the
specific gravity of the anti-freeze solution.

A good range for test strips is pH 5.00 to pH 9.00
These can be bought from most motor factors such as
Halfords. Medical and health test strips do the same
job. Price is around eight pounds per 100 strips.

You need to expose the full length of the strip in the
solution within the expansion tank which may not be
practical or reliable. It would be better to use a large
syringe to extract the solution from the tank or drain
a tumbler full from the bottom of the radiator. Under
no circumstances should you use a mouth syphon as
the solution is a POISON.