Fun with exhaust

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Hippotastic (if i read it correctly) suggested that the kwik fit system seemed to be inadequately mounted, or they had removed an anchor point themselves...

But they are all like that the whole back box section (pipe over the axle and back box) is only supported at the front (where it bolts to the centre section) and at the very rear by the tail pipe.

This means the whole lot flexes between those two points and eventually breaks where the pipe enters the back box.

As I read it Hippotastic has noticed some "possible" mounting points for an intermediate mounting, which if fitted, could possibly eliminate the flexing that causes the breakage.

It would be interesting to know (possibly from somebody with a very low mileage bongo that still has the original factory fit system) if there is intended to be an intermediate mount that supports both ends of the back box to minimise the flex.

If that is the case, then systems that do not have an intermediate mount could well be MOT failures.
If OEM factory systems don't have it, it could be argued that are not fit for purpose either and should be MOT failures as well.

[Hippotastic]

Hippotastic (if i read it correctly) suggested that the kwik fit system seemed to be inadequately mounted, or they had removed an anchor point themselves...

I do think it is inadequately mounted considering the weight of the back box and the length of the pipe forward to the flange. I do not think there ever or was there ever intended to be a mounting point where I used the coat hanger wire, I just improvised for my needs at the time to use the two drainage holes in the subframe assembly.

But they are all like that the whole back box section (pipe over the axle and back box) is only supported at the front (where it bolts to the centre section) and at the very rear by the tail pipe.

This means the whole lot flexes between those two points and eventually breaks where the pipe enters the back box.

As I read it Hippotastic has noticed some "possible" mounting points for an intermediate mounting, which if fitted, could possibly eliminate the flexing that causes the breakage.

Quite correct. I fully intend to support the fixed section as I am sure the wire will not rust (it is powder coated a nice shade of green) or suffer from heat damage, and if it falls off I will be back where the manufacturer felt it was adequate. I feel the jolt over the speed bump caused the pipe to brake off the front of the backbox due to flexing, that could be avoided by additional support. The part may have had a fault at manufacture, or it might be a cheap and nasty overpriced part that was fitted (£160 according the the receipt though) and was always doomed to failure as the joint does not looked welded, it looks like it was pressed in. Another manufacturer might make the joint differently and this problem might not occur for others then.

[Hippotastic]

Interesting topic - from a number of viewpoints!
<snip>
However, back to Hippotastic's situation. I'm astonished to hear that Kwik-Fit have that clause in their warranty terms, as it's patently unreasonable. The Sale of Goods Act would soon give it short shrift. In fact, even a 1-year guarantee is relatively meaningless under this act, as goods MUST perform to a level and life-expectancy that is 'reasonable'.

I read it off the Kwik-Fit website, I have just done the same and cannot find it now I just cut and pasted it.

Hippotastic, are you sure the warranty terms you are reading aren't to do with the additional 'life-long' warranty, where they will replace the system as long as the original customer keeps the car? Ie, this is over and above the 'standard' year-long warranty?

(Check your household and car insurances - do you have 'Legal Protection Cover'? Ok, some of these will only act to cover you if involved in an accident, but my household LPC covers 'contractual' disputes and they would love to take on a nice, tasty and obvious case like this!!!)

I have not spoken to Kwik-Fit yet, lets give them a chance. I asked the question in thought really, then went looking for an answer. I might be pleasantly treated, yes sir we will replace it and we have one here, lets fit it right now. I might not. I will be checking who the maufacturer is, as if the part fails do to the way it is made, then they should be aware of it before fitting it t other vehicles.

I guess the question should have been, is this a common event on bongo's then that they break like mine did (only five month old)

[vanvliet]

When my back box broke off ( yes, in exactly the same section as all of the others) the day before we were due to go on a fully loaded two week camping trip to Cornwall from Scotland - - I had no option but to run sans back box. I spotted the holes in the chasis referred to earlier and used a coathanger to hold the pipe in place as a temporary measure .I was lucky that this happened at low speed on a country lane a couple of miles from our house - - .A desperate phonecall to a mechanic chum resulted in him advising me to junk the backbox and that this would not be a problem on a diesel .The trip went well and a good few hundred miles later I decided that the back box was serving no useful purpose. The sound without the backbox is only a little louder and nobody has ever commented on it. Suppose I am just used to it by now.
If you're van is more than a few years old and running with the original backbox it will happen to you sooner or later and I seriously suggest that you put a wire coathanger and a pair of pliers in your toolkit - -

[Trouble at t'Mill]

Francophile: "Doesn't the Sale of Goods Act only apply between the seller and the original purchaser?"

Hmm, that's a good point! Without looking at the details, tho', I'd be astonished if any company could get away with what Kwik-Fit are suggesting (although, as Hippo says, I shouldn't jump to - possibly wrong - conclusions; let's give them a chance first!)

I suspect, very strongly, that Hippo will have a +ve result from Kwik-Fit. And I've NO doubt that, if they do try and be awkward, they can be 'persuaded' in any number of ways to think again. There is simply no way anyone should have to contend with an exhaust that lasts only a few months - no way.

Anyone here familiar with 'Honest John' who writes in the Motoring section of the Saturday Telegraph? If you ever want a straight answer from someone in 'the know', he's the one to ask!

[francophile1947]

Francophile: "Doesn't the Sale of Goods Act only apply between the seller and the original purchaser?"

Hmm, that's a good point! Without looking at the details, tho', I'd be astonished if any company could get away with what Kwik-Fit are suggesting (although, as Hippo says, I shouldn't jump to - possibly wrong - conclusions; let's give them a chance first!)

I suspect, very strongly, that Hippo will have a +ve result from Kwik-Fit. And I've NO doubt that, if they do try and be awkward, they can be 'persuaded' in any number of ways to think again. There is simply no way anyone should have to contend with an exhaust that lasts only a few months - no way.

Anyone here familiar with 'Honest John' who writes in the Motoring section of the Saturday Telegraph? If you ever want a straight answer from someone in 'the know', he's the one to ask!

Yep - Honest John is good , but with a name like that, he couldn't be anything else

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Yep - Honest John is good , but with a name like that, he couldn't be anything else

Not so sure - he talks a load of bo****s sometimes.

He once advised a reader against buying a diesel version of a certain car because of a problem than can only occur on a petrol one

His idea of what the Highway Code advises is pretty far fetched at times as well. For example the need for somebody joining a motorway or dual carriageway to ensure they merge in without causing the traffic already there to have to avoid it. He doesn't seem to know what a "Give Way" marking means.

He used to be OK but his ego is starting to take over.

[Simon Jones]

Kwik Fit state the following on their website & it doesn't sound very promising:

"Kwik Fit offers the following product guarantees. The guarantees are not transferable and apply only to the person who purchased the original parts. If you would like further details please contact us or ask your centre manager.

All exhaust systems sold by Kwik Fit come with a 3 year unlimited mileage guarantee. Catalytic converters are covered by a 2-year guarantee and may need to be returned to the manufacturers for inspection. It may also be necessary for customers to have their engine management system and associated components checked to ensure that they are in good working order. Note – Chromed or ‘Chromed effect’ parts can sometimes suffer a natural surface deterioration. This is not covered under this guarantee."

"All Kwik Fit guarantees are in addition to and do not detract from your statutory rights."

[pilajake]

When my back box broke off ( yes, in exactly the same section as all of the others) the day before we were due to go on a fully loaded two week camping trip to Cornwall from Scotland - - I had no option but to run sans back box. I spotted the holes in the chasis referred to earlier and used a coathanger to hold the pipe in place as a temporary measure .I was lucky that this happened at low speed on a country lane a couple of miles from our house - - .A desperate phonecall to a mechanic chum resulted in him advising me to junk the backbox and that this would not be a problem on a diesel .The trip went well and a good few hundred miles later I decided that the back box was serving no useful purpose. The sound without the backbox is only a little louder and nobody has ever commented on it. Suppose I am just used to it by now.
If you're van is more than a few years old and running with the original backbox it will happen to you sooner or later and I seriously suggest that you put a wire coathanger and a pair of pliers in your toolkit - -

A little louder Bongo is now very loud
My back box snapped in the usual place whilst doing 50 mph yesterday morning. As i sit here waiting for parcelforce to deliver my new middle and back box from Iezura £105 P&P included.
I managed to lift said snapped exhaust off the chassis using a stainless steel S hook £1.99 in Focus which has a convenient hole above the area of snappage and fits sweetly around the pipe. I will be leaving the S hook in place when the new exhaust is replaced as this gives extra support to the identified weak area
A little easier and less fiddlier than coat hanger and pliers and easily kept in the tool box.

[vanvliet]

When you fit a straight pipe and tip on ithe pipe it obviously diverts noise away from under the van - - - I can assure you that mine is not loud - -but it is just an opinion
Good idea re S hook - you will need it

[pilajake]

vanvliet,
My misunderstanding
I wasn't doubting your opinion on the noise or use of a straight pipe on your Bongo
I meant mine was very loud as it had no back box at all since it fell off and the snapped piece was under the bongo back cabin and I felt all the vibrations and fumes in the cabin.
Since I had had my new exhaust middle an back box fitted today I have had to turn the radio down a few decibels and the curtain twitchers in my quiet cul de sac do not look at me when I return home.

[vanvliet]

- - on the other hand I might just be getting a tad deaf as i get older
I expect the pipe will probably disintigrate soon and I will be back at square one but for now it seems fine.

[Hippotastic]

No joy at the Bletchley Center, and no joy when I called Customer Services.

So I have to pay to fix a 5 month old exhaust thats broken, and it seems if you buy a car, you are on your own no matter how new the parts are. Lessons learnt. The chap on the phone looked up my receipt, told me details off it, and still was unwilling to help me out.

Kwik-fit will not be getting my money for a replacement anything.

Oh by the way, the back box cost £169.00 and the middle box £145 on July 1st 2008. Thats service for you.

[francophile1947]

So are you going to fit a straight through pipe? - much cheaoer

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No joy at the Bletchley Center, and no joy when I called Customer Services.

So I have to pay to fix a 5 month old exhaust thats broken, and it seems if you buy a car, you are on your own no matter how new the parts are. Lessons learnt. The chap on the phone looked up my receipt, told me details off it, and still was unwilling to help me out.

Kwik-fit will not be getting my money for a replacement anything.

Oh by the way, the back box cost £169.00 and the middle box £145 on July 1st 2008. Thats service for you.

I'd have a word with Trading Standards, it could be that "merchantable quality" isn't necessarily related to ownership.

Can you contact the previous owner and see if they will "take it back" for you?

As you say "bye bye Kwikfit" no more business.

In fact I think I'd send a letter/email to HQ telling them that in no uncertain terms.

Or maybe try a trip over to Hitchin............http://www.visordown.com/forum/forummes ... /v/1/cp/1/