Fed up!!!!!!!!!!!

hils · Post by **hils** » Mon Dec 17, 2007 3:42 pm

The title is a light under statement really....

Some of you may or not be aware but we have had a few teething problems with our Bongo...

We recently had the cv joint replaced,deff bush fitted, 2 reat anti roll bar bushes and brackets...due to the fact that steering had become unsafe (to say the least)

A couple of months prior to this we had all four tyres changed to:

Front 195/70/15 x 2 rear 215/65/15

Just after they had been fitted starting to hear slight whining sound....

Today we have taken Bongo to have the two front tyres replaced to 195/65/15 and the whinning is terrible,,,,,what have I done wrong...or the Bongo very very ill!!!

Any advice would be received in the last few months I have spent over £600 on tyres!!!!!!!!!!!!!

when we bought the car it had 195/65/15 all the way round and no whinning noise.....Mine is a 4Wd

Do you think I should be putting my hand back in my purse and forking out for another w 195/65/15

Helpppppppppppppppppppp

Hils

scanner · Post by **scanner** » Mon Dec 17, 2007 3:44 pm

What you had was right what you have now is very wrong as the difference in rolling radius has increased and that is presumably why the whining has as well.

hils · Post by **hils** » Mon Dec 17, 2007 3:55 pm

Where these right Front 195/70/15 x 2 rear 215/65/15

or these

195/65/15

I did get the info for the tyres from the Manual (albeit english translation) and here on fury!!!

hils · Post by **hils** » Mon Dec 17, 2007 3:58 pm

The reason I had the front two chamged today was because every time I put the steering wheel on full lock be it left or right its almost as if the front wheels arent gripping......
and advised to get the front two changed!!!! one was showing signs of wear (f/o/s)
God feel like crying!!!

helen&tony · Post by **helen&tony** » Mon Dec 17, 2007 4:04 pm

Hi
I had a few problems with strange noises which I put down to tyres....have you had the wheel alignment checked....look at the fact sheets for data. I would do this first, especially as you have had a few components fixed. If no joy, then whining sounds like a wheel bearing, and if you have vibration as well, it might be a propshaft UJ. Perhaps other folk can help with a few more suggestions. Also , if the tyres are directional, and have an arrow to show the direction of rotation, check that the fitters have put them on the right way round....I've come across some dunces when I've had tyres fitted to previous cars.....let us know how you get on....and good luck- you will fix it in the end!
Helen

francophile1947 · Post by **francophile1947** » Mon Dec 17, 2007 4:42 pm

The original sizes were right according to Mazda (195/70 front and 215/65 rear) - what you have now will wreck your viscous coupling on the 4WD system because the rolling circumferences of the front and rear tyres are too different - in fact there is a nearly 4% difference

Lots of people have the same size tyres on the front and rear with no problems whatsoever.

bigdaddycain · Post by **bigdaddycain** » Mon Dec 17, 2007 4:52 pm

The mis-match of sizes could account for the premature wear of said tyres too....

You may have had the original japanese spec tyres fitted at first,which could account for the impression of not getting much grip,or they could have been grossly over inflated?

The tracking should be checked/adjusted yearly anyway really,especially if you have had components changed that could have thrown the steering geometry out.

Hitting a big pool of standing water is enough to throw out the tracking....

hils · Post by **hils** » Mon Dec 17, 2007 5:41 pm

Thanks for the replies...

So is the consensus of opinion that we should have 215/65 at rear and 195/70 at front.....or should i change the rear two back to 195/65 which is what we had on them when we bought them and no whining noise!!

the problem with the 215/65 at rear and 195/70 at front is thats when the whinning started...and obviously today changing the front two to 195/65 made it far far worse

arghhhh tyres...and unfortunately as I have stated before I have mno idea about mechanics etc....

thanks hils

Ralph · Post by **Ralph** » Mon Dec 17, 2007 5:43 pm

Ours had a bad whine at 55/60 mph changed 195/70 fronts to same
size all round, "silence" and a few more mpg up from 25 to 28/30,
only other difference is that it seems to have gone from slight
understear to slight overstear which I prefer anyway.
The van rolls better to on a flat rd you can push it with one hand.

francophile1947 · Post by **francophile1947** » Mon Dec 17, 2007 6:50 pm

Hils, you have a PM.

mikeonb4c · Post by **mikeonb4c** » Mon Dec 17, 2007 6:58 pm

Hils - I reckon you could do with a 2nd opinion. There are a lot of knowledgeable BF owners not too far from you - maybe if one of them saw/heard it they could give their view. Reading your posts, I worry you may be fixating on tyres when (as Helen says) it could be a bearing, propshaft etc. etc.

Stuff like anti-roll bar bushes is common on Bongos (well most 12 yr old cars!) so dont feel too hard done by there (I had to do mine just after purchase). Could you recover some of your £ by selling the tyres you don't want - they can't have got that much wear on them?

Good luck - keep us posted. Its a b*gger when a dream goes sour. Buying 2nd hand cars can be an expensive lottery. I paid £7k for our Spacewagon and had no end of trouble getting the dealer to fix things. Then, just after warranty expired, it cost me £600 in repairs when the ECU went. Cars bite more than ever these days when they go wrong I fear.

hils · Post by **hils** » Mon Dec 17, 2007 7:06 pm

THank s Mike

I just find it so annoying when I cant get to an end of a problem....
and unfortunately car mechanics are something I lack in (arghhhhhhhhhhh)

Although they do fascinate me and I take my hat of to you knowledgeable lot

hubby and I take ages looking for cars and part with our money carefully.....

I know what you saying about the tyres...but seems strange to me that the noise has got louder today after front tyres have been changed...so much so that I didnt dare go over 60 mph on the motorway it was that loud./....

I am taking all the advice on board...and hopefully a Bongo "friend" may offer to take a look ( I live in hope)

In fact the next time I see one I gonna flag them down and ask

te he

thanks Hils

dandywarhol · Post by **dandywarhol** » Mon Dec 17, 2007 7:29 pm

I'd be interested to know what milages your Bongos have covered (although I'm aware quite a few have been clocked).

I've been preaching about this viscous coupling malarky for a while now and I'm sure some of the "old school" will be sick of my gushings...........

This is purely my opinion on how the crazy system works. I originally thought it may have had to do with the vehicle's handling traits but now I'm convinced on the following - I'm open to comments

HERE'S how a VC works courtesy of How Stuff Works.
also more bumf HERE in Wikiepedia.

I believe that in order to call the vehicle a FULL TIME 4WD Mazda (and others) make the front and rear propshafts rotate at slightly different speeds, allowing the VC fluid to heat up and transmit drive to the front wheels from the rear wheels (the Bongo is predominately rear wheel drive)
This is achieved by fitting SLIGHTLY different sized tyres which give a different rolling circumference - think of the distance the tyre valve travels in 1 complete revolution of the wheel. Landrover, in the hideously unreliable "FULL TIME 4WD" Freelander use different ratio diffs front and rear to achieve the same effect

This is all fine and dandy when the system and vehicle is new but it is destined to degrade the VC fluid the more distance the vehicle travels.

Still with me

When the fluid degrades it appears to thicken up rather than stay fluid (even more so if new tyres are fitted to one axle and worn to the other or wrong sizes). When this happens, rather than the front wheels "following" the rears at nearly the same speed (because the front wheels are gripping the road and driving the front propshaft) they are "scrubbing" or trying to catch up because the thick, worn out fluid is trying to drive the fronts too much! This causes noise which is actually the tyres complaining and trying to slip against the road.

This will cause the fluid to overheat even more and therefore thicken even more and eventually it'll knock six bells out of the propshaft joints and diff

If the VC is knackered then fitting the same size tyres all round will eliminate the propshafts trying to turn at different speeds (except maybe when turning tightly)

This might be the controversial part now...................If I had a 4WD with this crappy VC setup I'd be fitting the same size tyres all round. That way there would be far less strain on the VC and driveline and there would be only 2WD under normal circumstances until one wheel (at any corner) slipped.

If you suspect your VC is giving up the ghost then jack up one front wheel with the gearbox in neutral and see if the wheel spins a bit by itself - this is windup - and it shouldn't!

I thought long and hard about whether to buy a 2WD or 4WD Bongo and that is why I went down the 2WD route. I'd only consider 4WD at a guaranteed very low milage and change the tyres promptly.
sorry for the long winded ramblings but I really think this is what it's all about.

scanner · Post by **scanner** » Mon Dec 17, 2007 7:58 pm

The correct size SHOULD be shown on a plate inside the drivers door.

Any tyre fitter who didn't recommend you check the tracking before fitting new tyres isn't worth using as he obviously thinks more about his wallet than yours.

Did you specifically ask for the new size tyre or did the fitter recommend it?

If they recommended the size fitted, go back and tell them to change them for the correct size at their expense.

mikeonb4c · Post by **mikeonb4c** » Mon Dec 17, 2007 11:24 pm

Incidentally hils - is the mechanic who is looking at your Bongo someone with lots of experience on Bongos? My view is that Bongos will do much better in the hands of a specialist who knows them. Mike at Wheelquick, Wigan and Adrian in Bury both come highly recommended and you might be able to drop the car off with them and have a day at Wigan Pier or Bury Market while they investigate. I know its more £ but not sure what else to suggest except - as stated above - to see if a kindly Bongo owner who is reasonably techie, has a 4WD and who lives near you might look it over.

Dandy - from you post above, is there a case for changing the fluid in the viscous coupling or is that not possible?

Good luck. I have to say that when a Bongo is behaving, it is a very fine car.

Fed up!!!!!!!!!!!

Fed up!!!!!!!!!!!

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