Coughing and Spluttering on start up, when cold

southcoastrob · Post by **southcoastrob** » Sun Nov 11, 2007 12:36 pm

On start up for first time when engine cold (diesel 2.5t) it will start straight away but will struggle to find revs and cough and splutter a little bit with some smoke coming out (not sure of the main colour of this smoke as I am a ikle coloured blind). Either after a min or 2 it will be fine and settle or if I give it a bit of revs this will also settle the problem. If the engine is warm then it will start like a purring cat (well more like a lion).

I have bled the fuel filter as I thought this might be the case, as sediment light comes on first start up but goes out after a few mo's (never used to do this?!)

So everyone with this in mind is this a glow plug problem or something else? Thoughts please would be fantastic.

mikeonb4c · Post by **mikeonb4c** » Sun Nov 11, 2007 12:47 pm

Sounds very much glowplug related to me but as I've never had glowplug probs myself and am not a mechanic, I can only go by what I've read on here. But if it runs fine after the first episode of the day I reckon you can rule out fuel feed problems. Also, this 'only a problem on the first start of the day' thing is a classic glowplug symptom from what I've read. have you tried waiting for 5-10 secs after the glowplug light goes out and then starting it? I know mine has kicked up when I forgot to wait for the glowplug light to go out so it clearly likes its working glowplugs.

Also, I assume you are running on pure diesel (i.e. not veg oil mix)

Mike

southcoastrob · Post by **southcoastrob** » Sun Nov 11, 2007 12:58 pm

mikeonb4c wrote:Sounds very much glowplug related to me but as I've never had glowplug probs myself and am not a mechanic, I can only go by what I've read on here. But if it runs fine after the first episode of the day I reckon you can rule out fuel feed problems. Also, this 'only a problem on the first start of the day' thing is a classic glowplug symptom from what I've read. have you tried waiting for 5-10 secs after the glowplug light goes out and then starting it? I know mine has kicked up when I forgot to wait for the glowplug light to go out so it clearly likes its working glowplugs.

Also, I assume you are running on pure diesel (i.e. not veg oil mix)

Mike

Hi Mike,

I always wait for the light to go out but have never tried waiting a bit longer. I will give this a go. I am also running 100% diesel.

Can glow plugs be changed easily or is it best to get a garage to do it?

cheers

mikeonb4c · Post by **mikeonb4c** » Sun Nov 11, 2007 1:34 pm

I believe its quite straightforward. However, you have to be a bit careful not to damage one or two things when doing the job. Also, there is an outside possibility its the 'whatever it is' that supplies the plugs with power that can occasionally be faulty. Its all on BF so do a search and read up on it (there may also be a factsheet in the Members Area if you area member).

Again, you'll find this in your 'Searches' but I recall discussion about switching on the ignition, letting the glowplug lights go out, switching it off and repeating the cycle before engaging the starter motor as a way of ensuring the plugs are nice and warm. But if you are having t odo this it does suggest the plugs are getting 'tired'.

There's also been interesting discussion about who has had problems with plugs. Some have gone for years without problems, and others have had to replace them once a year. Just recently, there was a suggestion that getting good quality ones (i.e. Mazda, or Ford Ranger engine as they may be cheaper) could be what matters, rather than finding the cheapest on ebay or w.h.y. Do a Search and you should find the discussion (it was recent).

If you do decide new plugs are needed, remember to check and get the correct length ones (your VIN number, on the alloy plate/sticker in the drivers door recess should give you that).

To come back to your point about fitting them, I think its quite 'doable' for a reasonable DIY mechanic. If not, a garage shouldn''t be charging too much labour for it as it is simple. Depending on where you are, you might be best going to a Bongo specialist as they will do it quicker and thus cost less.

Mike

Pete & Sue · Post by **Pete & Sue** » Sun Nov 11, 2007 1:56 pm

For first start-up of the day,especially when it's cold, I operate the warm-up 3 times and it runs sweet as a nut. I have forgotten once or twice and experienced the same symptoms as you have, must admit I broke out in a cold sweat, thought it had gone for a burton!

londonron · Post by **londonron** » Sun Nov 11, 2007 3:08 pm

my van does this also so thanks fo rthe advice and also can you post your solution when you find it.

Lovejoy · Post by **Lovejoy** » Sun Nov 11, 2007 5:36 pm

Don't assume it's the glow plugs - best to get them tested first or you could spend money and time to no avail.

I just had exactly the same problem with my little vauxhall van, and bought a set of plugs. Have spent a happy hour in the rain this afternoon putting the new plugs in.

Very pleased that I managed to do it myself with only a few swear words when the little top nuts fell into the engine bay, I went and turned the key. (Purposely hadn't started the van today before changing the plugs).

Bugger. No difference. Still takes two goes of heat for it to start first turn, and still belches out a cloud of grey smoke when it starts.

Back to the drawing board.

Google suggests it could be the Glowplug relay/controller (expensive apparently) or a crack in the 50amp strip fuse or a fault in the head temperature sensor.

But it's too dark now, so that's a job for next week-end.

No rest for the wicked is there

haydn callow · Post by **haydn callow** » Sun Nov 11, 2007 5:53 pm

On a Bongo switching the glowplug "coil" light on 2 or three times will not make any differance to how the engine starts and runs. This is because the glow plugs continue glowing even after the warning "coil" light goes out.
Leaving the key in the on position after the light goes out and before turning the engine over may help because this will get things a little hotter.
What I'm saying is turning on and off so you get the light to come on 2/three times is not as good as just leaving the key in the glow position for a few extra seconds even though the coil light is not on. (the plugs themselves will still be glowing. They will also continue to glow long after the engine has started.
Not the best explaination but the best I can manage.

patnben · Post by **patnben** » Sun Nov 11, 2007 6:32 pm

Quite a good explanation actually Haydn.

A simple quick test to check some things.

Turn the ignition switch but don't crank the engine.

If you are in a quite area, turn the igition switch,
you should hear the glowplug relay click "On".
When the panel light goes out you should not hear
the relay click off. it should only do so when you
turn off the ignition switch.

If you can't hear the glowplug relay clicking on and
off with the ignition switch then the most likely problem
is the glowplug relay itself, probably the coil Kaput.

As Haydn says, if you leave the ignition on for about 10
seconds after the warning light goes out it should start
perfectly well but if it's extremely lumpy, it's a sure sign
that 1 or more glowplugs are open circuit and need changing.

If you want to preserve your glowplugs, there is a simple
solution in the members area fact sheets.

Pete & Sue · Post by **Pete & Sue** » Mon Nov 12, 2007 11:26 am

Hello Haydn, followed your advise about cold start,held the key in position for about 15 seconds after light went out and started OK. Ta very much.

southcoastrob · Post by **southcoastrob** » Mon Nov 12, 2007 11:14 pm

hmmm! it is always not that easy...

I have had the battery tested... A ok
I tested, what I believe is the fuse link, coming off +ve terminal on the battery and that was fine (no break)

So either is glow plugs or the relay?...

smartmonkey · Post by **smartmonkey** » Tue Nov 13, 2007 2:31 pm

It's dead easy to test. Just look for 12V (might be down to 11 with the glow plug load) on the feed rail for the glow plugs. You should have voltage the instant you turn the key and for a good 10 plus seconds afterwards.

Lovejoy · Post by **Lovejoy** » Tue Nov 13, 2007 3:21 pm

Thanks Smartmonkey. If it is below 11 or 12v does that indicate a problem with the plug control box relay thingy ? Or could it still be a fault in the rail ?

smartmonkey · Post by **smartmonkey** » Tue Nov 13, 2007 4:07 pm

The relay is most likely to fail on or off rather than giving a low voltage (but its possible). If its got a voltage its probably working OK but check its the same as the battery voltage as well. If the glow plugs alone drop it down to low 11's you may need a new battery.

If the wrong glow plugs are fitted it may be shorting the supply rail to the cylinder head and this might fry the glow plug relay quite quickly. Have a quick check to ensure nothing can touch earth other than the glow plugs.

southcoastrob · Post by **southcoastrob** » Thu Nov 22, 2007 11:49 am

Just to let you know that the problem in the end was simply Glow Plugs!!

2 Had Failed
1 was almost gone
1 was hunkey dorey

not the best to be running on 1 glow plug, no wonder it was very spluttery when cold.