Temp gauge fact sheet - modifying standard temperature gauge

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cmm303
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Temp gauge fact sheet - modifying standard temperature gauge

Post by cmm303 » Mon Apr 11, 2016 11:42 pm

With all that's being discussed about overheating and alarms, I've been reading through the fact sheet with a vested interest as I modified my gauge when I first got the Bongo. It is an excellent guide but I was trying to relate needle position to coolant temperature and I'm getting inconsistencies. Hopefully it is me being dumb so I'd appreciate another view.

The fact sheet is this one http://www.igmaynard.co.uk/bongo/member ... pgauge.pdf

On the 1st page it says:
The intention is to scale the gauge to read from 75o Celsius to 120o Celsius, this enables the gauge to be more active over the normal running temperature range.
Normal running temperatures show between the vertical position ( 50 % ) and to the right ( 65 % ) which correspond to an approximate coolant temperature of 88o to 98oC which reflects the thermostat opening and various low level throttle positions. A long steep uphill climb may cause the gauge to go to the 80 % position.
Based on the above I would say that normal running is indicated with the needle pointing somewhere between straight up and about half way over to "H". ("C" = 0% and "H" = 100%), the higher indication only for when the engine is working hard.

Compare that with a table much further on in the sheet
This is the scale in percentage of movement from the “C” cold mark to the “H” hot mark in Celcius. A healthy
cooling system should exibit temperatures similar to those shown below measured with an infra red
thermometer.

70...........80...........85..........88.............92..........100............110........Deg C
C............20%........40%.......50%..........60%.........80%............H.........Movement from C to H

From cold, the needle rises linearly to around 92o when the return thermostat opens and the temperature falls back to about 90o. Heavy use of the accelerator on a long steep hill shows a maximum temperature of 100 to105o Celcius.
From the above table 98 deg C is 75% movement, vs 65% on the first page. Typo maybe but ....
Max movement is 110 deg C vs 120 deg C on the first page.

I calculate that 80% deflection based on the first page would correspond to a temp of 104 deg C (from 10% deflection = 4 deg C)
In contrast in the abive table 80% is a comfy 100 deg C.

A few degrees at the top end is the difference between enjoying a holiday and having it ruined. Knowing when to panic is quite important :lol:
What am I missing or have I stumbled across a genuine slip up?
Has anybody validated the numbers in the guide empirically? (I accept that different gauges measure different parts so would differ a bit)



Before refurbishing my cooling system my gauge could climb up to 85% easily on harsh dual carriageway or motorway hills and I have 110 ohm resistor, so that deflection is equivalent to 100% with 100 ohm resistor. Too scared now to work this through! Quite glad I haven't found a lump of aluminium underneath the engine. Good bit is that since the work I havent yet got it up to 50% (94 deg C using 2nd table and 15% adjustment for 110 ohm resistor)
Chris with BertieB
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Re: Temp gauge fact sheet - modifying standard temperature g

Post by JoeC » Tue Apr 12, 2016 3:57 pm

I did the mod and got some worried about the temp needle going up and down that I took the mod off to put back to normal. Now the needle just stays near the 11:00 position and I know that this is OK. Once less thing to 'worry' about.
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Re: Temp gauge fact sheet - modifying standard temperature g

Post by cmm303 » Tue Apr 12, 2016 5:02 pm

JoeC wrote:I did the mod and got some worried about the temp needle going up and down that I took the mod off to put back to normal. Now the needle just stays near the 11:00 position and I know that this is OK. Once less thing to 'worry' about.
:lol: head, bucket, sand! :wink: . You're supposed to be able to see it going up :( and hopefully back down :D. Trouble with the standard gauge is when it does move it is probably too late. The mod suggests 110 ohms instead of 100 ohm almost as a throwaway but I think 110 ohm gives a more balanced visualisation with "normal" being upto about the half way mark (12 o'clock)
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Re: Temp gauge fact sheet - modifying standard temperature g

Post by Bongolia » Tue Apr 12, 2016 10:04 pm

Sorry to hijack but I have a strange thing happening with my temp gauge. When I accelerate the gauge drops to cold if I release the accelerator it climbs back to normal.Any ideas? Cannot see evidence of over heating and the level in tank has remained the sam and heater functions normally.
Perplexed of London.
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Re: Temp gauge fact sheet - modifying standard temperature g

Post by cmm303 » Tue Apr 12, 2016 10:13 pm

Bongolia wrote:Sorry to hijack but I have a strange thing happening with my temp gauge. When I accelerate the gauge drops to cold if I release the accelerator it climbs back to normal.Any ideas? Cannot see evidence of over heating and the level in tank has remained the sam and heater functions normally.
Perplexed of London.
do you know if the gauge is modified or have you a Masons alarm? A clue is whether, before this misbehaviour started, would it rise on long hills then drop back down once the road levelled out or did it sit unmoving at about the 11 O'clock?
Chris with BertieB
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Re: Temp gauge fact sheet - modifying standard temperature g

Post by Northern Bongolow » Wed Apr 13, 2016 12:18 am

Bongolia wrote:Sorry to hijack but I have a strange thing happening with my temp gauge. When I accelerate the gauge drops to cold if I release the accelerator it climbs back to normal.Any ideas? Cannot see evidence of over heating and the level in tank has remained the sam and heater functions normally.
Perplexed of London.
the gauge itself is probably knackered. or check all the connections on/to the clock cluster including the large multiplugs and the small silver screws on the board itself, shown for info only in the link below.
as i understand it the gauge works by measuring the resistance or voltage across 2 legs in the gauge, sounds like one leg is faulty, when you rev up the voltage from the alternator is increased so is showing on one leg.
this can happen when you overtighten the mounting screws on the back, this can break one of wires, easy to swap and try one from a breakers

http://www.igmaynard.co.uk/bongo/forum/ ... hilit=chip
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Re: Temp gauge fact sheet - modifying standard temperature g

Post by Bongolia » Wed Apr 13, 2016 7:49 am

Pretty sure it a standard unmodded gauge.I cant say I noticed it before oil and filter change. It may well be a bad earth or poor connection as Northern says. I will get in there and check it weekend.How does the instrument cluster release?
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Re: Temp gauge fact sheet - modifying standard temperature g

Post by Bongolia » Wed Apr 13, 2016 7:55 am

Just checked out the link thanks. Raises another question what is the conversion chip for? I thought that the mph overlay dealt with calibration issue. I noticed on Ebay something about it removing the limiter? Although now I cannot find the ad. :?:
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Re: Temp gauge fact sheet - modifying standard temperature g

Post by cmm303 » Wed Apr 13, 2016 9:24 am

Bongolia wrote:Pretty sure it a standard unmodded gauge.I cant say I noticed it before oil and filter change. It may well be a bad earth or poor connection as Northern says. I will get in there and check it weekend.How does the instrument cluster release?
Unmodded does mean that somebody hasn't been in there fiddling with terminal posts etc. but you never know the full history. Northern B's advice is always good to follow! Need to be careful of some of the posts in the instrument panel, over-tightening can break fine wires on the other side.

Instrument cluster is easy to remove.
Disconnect battery/batteries first.
Surround has 4 screws in recessed holes, might need to pop out or disconnect any switches or indicators in it as they become accessible. Drop steering wheel to make it easier.
Instrument cluster also has 4 screws now visible. It comes out top first but en-route you'll need to unclip the 2 or 3 connectors from the back.


The mph overlay allows speed to be viewed in mph (yes really :lol: ). It does not affect the odometer which continues to clock km. Some importers and I guess later owners, installed a converter that changes the odometer to clock miles.
Chris with BertieB
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Re: Temp gauge fact sheet - modifying standard temperature g

Post by rita » Wed Apr 13, 2016 9:29 am

cmm303 wrote:
Bongolia wrote:Pretty sure it a standard unmodded gauge.I cant say I noticed it before oil and filter change. It may well be a bad earth or poor connection as Northern says. I will get in there and check it weekend.How does the instrument cluster release?
Unmodded does mean that somebody hasn't been in there fiddling with terminal posts etc. but you never know the full history. Northern B's advice is always good to follow! Need to be careful of some of the posts in the instrument panel, over-tightening can break fine wires on the other side.

Instrument cluster is easy to remove.
Disconnect battery/batteries first.
Surround has 4 screws in recessed holes, might need to pop out or disconnect any switches or indicators in it as they become accessible. Drop steering wheel to make it easier.
Instrument cluster also has 4 screws now visible. It comes out top first but en-route you'll need to unclip the 2 or 3 connectors from the back.



Make sure that the side (sliding ) door is fully CLOSED before you disconnect the battery, and don't open it whilst the battery is disconnected.
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Re: Temp gauge fact sheet - modifying standard temperature g

Post by cmm303 » Wed Apr 13, 2016 11:46 am

rita wrote: Make sure that the side (sliding ) door is fully CLOSED before you disconnect the battery, and don't open it whilst the battery is disconnected.
Nobody told me that! I had the batteries off for 3 weeks during the latest bongo battle and used the middle as a store room. Door opened/closed/locked/unlocked regularly. Was I just very lucky or maybe my door knows who is boss?

Seriously, that is quite a restriction. What goes wrong?
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Re: Temp gauge fact sheet - modifying standard temperature g

Post by JoeC » Wed Apr 13, 2016 2:59 pm

cmm303 wrote:
JoeC wrote:I did the mod and got some worried about the temp needle going up and down that I took the mod off to put back to normal. Now the needle just stays near the 11:00 position and I know that this is OK. Once less thing to 'worry' about.
:lol: head, bucket, sand! :wink: . You're supposed to be able to see it going up :( and hopefully back down :D. Trouble with the standard gauge is when it does move it is probably too late. The mod suggests 110 ohms instead of 100 ohm almost as a throwaway but I think 110 ohm gives a more balanced visualisation with "normal" being upto about the half way mark (12 o'clock)
I know that but I was too busy looking at how far the needle went up and down that I was getting paranoid if there was an issue or not. Putting it back to normal I only have to look to see if it deviates from the 11 position and if it does then be wary/take action.
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Re: Temp gauge fact sheet - modifying standard temperature g

Post by g8dhe » Wed Apr 13, 2016 4:01 pm

cmm303 wrote:
rita wrote: Make sure that the side (sliding ) door is fully CLOSED before you disconnect the battery, and don't open it whilst the battery is disconnected.
Nobody told me that! I had the batteries off for 3 weeks during the latest bongo battle and used the middle as a store room. Door opened/closed/locked/unlocked regularly. Was I just very lucky or maybe my door knows who is boss?

Seriously, that is quite a restriction. What goes wrong?
Its not guaranteed to happen, but the internal mechanism can get out of sync because it doesn't drive around the full rotation to the end point of the cycle where it operates a microswitch to ready it for next use because the power isn't there.
If this happens then it can often be solved by a hard slap middle of the door about 1/3 of the way up on the inside, this causes enough vibration/shock to operate the switch to complete the cycle.
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Re: Temp gauge fact sheet - modifying standard temperature g

Post by cmm303 » Wed Apr 13, 2016 11:43 pm

Thanks!
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