Bongo head faults

[bonewage]

Hi Guys, Van split bleed hose in summer, lost coolant, went on for several months occasionaly shedding water, eventually put into garage for repair beginning October, garage sent head to engineering firm for testing came back skimmed and passed ok, fitted head , new radiator ,got it back after £1200 bill, lasted 30mile before head cracked, got trailered back to garage, engineering firm denied head was faulty, garage ordered new head, received wrong one, ordered another fitted it this week, stripped diesel pipe, fitted another, now having difficulty bleeding system, time is now end December and still no van, am seriously considering selling when i eventually get it back.
Loved the van for 14 months till hose went now lost faith in what is a brillant concept motor.
Still will wait and see if I get it back before christmas, certainly will not use garage again despite mechanic being trained on Bongo's.....Bonewage

[Bob]

welcome aboard Bonewage, Mike is right, once you've got her sorted why not invest the small price of a low coolant alarm and try her for a bit.

I'd recomend some time reading all you can on here, particularly Techie Stuff, as you will be more alert to potential problems in the future, but don't be put off, I'm sure if you looked in any main dealers workshop you could walk away thinking all their models are un-reliable, it's just that you are seeing/reading about the sickies, look on the road to see how many ae running round behaving. Good luck.

[bonewage]

I agree totally, problem is at moment the garage seems not able to cope with what should be a simple head problem, but watch this space.

[bonewage]

Thanks Bob, have read everything I could about cooling probs, even gave copies to garage, but they are now trying a pressurizer, will wait and see if today is a good day..Bonewage

[Bumbly1]

I had a not dissimlar experience however in my case the garage persevered and bled it properly. Part of the fault in my case was gunge still in the system. I read with interest that you had a new radiator fitted and that will help but the gunge seems to lurk in the rear heater matrices and they need to be throroughly flushed before the air will be expunged. Perhaps there was still gunge trapped there after the first episode? Hope it finally gets sorted.

[vanvliet]

Can't agree with Mike over this so here is my view - - I had a Mazda MX5 for years and was a member of the owners club - mine was a 1992 model It was not a cosseted car and was used daily .Sure MX5's they had the occassional mechanical problem, ( mostly brought about by owner abuse! ) but it was generally a remarkably reliable vehicle .
In contrast the Bongo has a real achilles heal in the design of the cooling system .There are far too many people on this forum ( and god knows how many who are not members )with coolant related problems for it to be easily dismissed and more come out of the closet as they vehicles are used in this country .I have not had any problems with my van but it is always at the back of my mind .I never had this worry with any other vehicle I have owned .The fact that a touring vehicle can be potentially so unreliable, even with the extra care taken by fastidiuos owners , and that you may well be stuck with a van full of camping equipment far from home is a major weakness .I like my van but,to be frank - - if I knew a couple of years ago what I know now it would have put me off buying one. When I give up on this one , and I hope that I will have it for a good few years , I will not be buying another .It is a flawed gem.

[paul9]

Can't agree with Mike over this so here is my view - - I had a Mazda MX5 for years and was a member of the owners club - mine was a 1992 model It was not a cosseted car and was used daily .Sure MX5's they had the occassional mechanical problem, ( mostly brought about by owner abuse! ) but it was generally a remarkably reliable vehicle .
In contrast the Bongo has a real achilles heal in the design of the cooling system .There are far too many people on this forum ( and god knows how many who are not members )with coolant related problems for it to be easily dismissed and more come out of the closet as they vehicles are used in this country .I have not had any problems with my van but it is always at the back of my mind .I never had this worry with any other vehicle I have owned .The fact that a touring vehicle can be potentially so unreliable, even with the extra care taken by fastidiuos owners , and that you may well be stuck with a van full of camping equipment far from home is a major weakness .I like my van but,to be frank - - if I knew a couple of years ago what I know now it would have put me off buying one. When I give up on this one , and I hope that I will have it for a good few years , I will not be buying another .It is a flawed gem.

if you think these are bad,well the toyota estimas are a lot worse, i own both,and am a member on both forums,but i can honestly say the estima suffers a lot more from cooling problems than these and are a lot more expensive to repair,all the estima head problems are down to lack of maintainence of the cooling system,blocked rads ,air locks ect,a well maintained vehicle will give years of trouble free motoring,as these are imported with not a lot of history behind them,unless they are properly prepared on import by some one who knows these vehicles,they could be timebombs.
one dealer i know, has he's proffesionally prepared,cooling systems fully flushed and checked, and to date has only had 2 with head failers, within the 12 month warranty period he provides,and that is out of around 40 vehicles that i know he has sold.

[Bumbly1]

Whilst I sympathise with Vanliet's view, I dont share it. I think the problem is poor maintenance of the cooling system. Sludge builds up through use and is not cleared out. This restricts the passageways and interrupts the flow putting undue pressure on the system. Hoses deteriorate and thermostats fail, both of which are relatively normal occurences on older engines. imho, keep the sludge out of the system and it should perform fine. That said, it is not an easy job to get sludge out of the system once it is in there but I reckon it should reward you with good reliable service after that is done !

[paul9]

the cost to replace the head on a toyota estima is around £1400,this includes using all genuine parts including the head and gasket,new rad,thermostat,cam belt and includes a 12 months parts and labour warranty.
I bought my bongo with a head failer,luckily enough it was only the gasket blown due to an airlock,caused by previous owner who let a garage who wasn't familiar with these vehicles, replace coolant and didn't bleed system properly,it was caught in time luckily ,and only blew gasket,total cost to repair, including head pressure test and skim,gasket and bolts plus labour, was less than £300 all inc.

[vanvliet]

Wouldn't have an Estima either Never fear ,I will be replacing the coolant pipes in the new year as a matter of course ,courtesy of Flippa ,and will try my best to keep the system well maintained.
Measures of reliability? Well, the Mazda MX5 membership grew from quite small numbers to be quite a large organisation over the years and as more people joined , so the reputation for reliability grew - hmmm., seems to be the opposite with t' Bongs
May I wish clear pipes to you all in the year to come - and years thereafter . Have a good holiday!

[dandywarhol]

MX5s and others have fairly easy cooling systems to work on and I'd wager that they are maintained better in Japan because of that - easier to work on = lower labour costs.

Manufacturers state that the coolant should be changed every 2/3 years. Main dealers will do this because it pays them well and keeps the vehicle healthy (not necessarily in that order )
In the UK, when a vehicle's warranty has expired most owners go to independants or "someone who knows motors" for servicing because it costs less. It also costs less to ommit the coolant flush/change.

Carry out a poll and again I'll bet that only the minority of older vehicles have regular coolant changes - EXACTLY THE TIME THAT THEY NEED IT!

It's a maintainance problem (or lack of it) IMHO

[trevd01]

Here's a theory:

Imported Bongos are so well preserved body-wise and interior-wise, that they don't seem as old as they actually are. Our '99 Bongo is by far the oldest vehicle that we have owned for years - but it is still comparatively young for a Bongo, though.

Old vehicles are kept reliable by proper maintenance - ask any classic car owner, or more importantly a big fleet owner of commercial vehicles.

Vehicles basically can last forever if you can maintain them properly, and that means replacing parts before they fail.

If you run a modern car and change it before it starts to need major components replacing, or slightly less frequent requirements like, say replacing the brake fluid, or flushing the cooling system - you will never experience the sort of problems older Bongos can have.

People maybe don't treat them like they should an older vehicle, because they dont feel like that when you are driving one?

So we import a vehicle from across the world that has been driven on some of the most congested roads in the world for ten years.

- It has no service history.

-It gets a 'standard service', which does not cover the kind of things that a vehicle this old needs, but just basically oil and filters. Maybe the dealer is a good one and is dilligent and understands Bongos, or maybe he is watching you drive away with his fingers crossed...

-We then set off loaded down with families, camping gear etc., at speeds that are hardly ever reached in Japan.

-Then things go wrong for a proportion of owners in a big way, either straight away, or some months later.

I'm not sure this is at all surprising

[dandywarhol]

[bonewage]

today was not a good day

[vanvliet]

I agree that maintenance is a major factor and poor / lack of ,probably exacerbates an underlying design fault plus the cooling systems were probably expected to last only a few years , along with the rest of the van!
MX5's seem to tolerate a lot more 'abuse' because the system is , as you say, a simple one - but more stressed if the car is driven spiritedly. MX5's ), like any car , perform best with regular maintenance. I never had any worries about imine breaking down when driving long distances . It just wasn't an issue And yes I imported that vehicle from Japan too - mine was a Eunos Roadster, and it didn't have a service history!