Slight groaning sound driver side front, last 3m under braking ?

[BongoBongo123]

This issue appears only during braking and can ony really be heard in the last 3m of braking with the window open...maybe you can hear it a bit
with window closed as well.. the deeper part of the sound. It is a groan - silence - groan - silence - groan - silence sound... the frequency of which depends on the speed of the wheels rotation.

I had the "suspension arm ball joint dust covers/dirt ingress" done by a local garage for the MOT recently. Sometimes after they have been fiddling down their the back plate needs a bit of a push back with a long screwdriver through the wheel hole to stop it scuffing but this time I have a more persistant groaning in the last few meters of breaking. Only on the drivers side.

Nothing heard when freewheeling only under braking. So I have been back 2 times this far and popped by again today as the issue has not been resolved. First they said they packed some more grease into the balljoint and that quietened it down. Maybe..for about a day or 2 then the noise came back.

Took it back again and that time they said a caliper was sticking, they cleaned it up they said.

I am not a mechanic but these "solutions" seemed a bit odd to me. I thought if a caliper sticks it would mean the noise is caused by caliper pressing brake pad to the disk would be there all the time not only under braking. Packing grease in ? Well I thought that would be part of replacing the dust covers anyway (not sure but if the ball joint is exposed I would have thought grease is nigh on essential to be present)

The noise came back. So went again and I started wondering if disk could be warped although I am not getting much juddering through the steering when breaking at speed or anything. It was suggested that they could only suggest parts to replace which would be guess work, which did not fill me with confidence beng honest.. One guy seemed more interested than the others and asked me to demonstrate the issue.. I rolled down a bit of hill with engine off to clearly demonstrate the sound. he said his father had a Merc that sounded like that under breaking and suggested maybe it could be a slider not releasing quite right. I plan to book it in after bank holiday and the guy who was helpful said he would look at that.

I am not a mechanic and whilst this has all been cordial discussion I plan to get them to take a final look but am thinking it might need to go elsewhere for a more in depth check.

Any other ideas of what this might be? Not portining any blame but does replacing ball joints require any hammering to release parts so something could have been bent in error ? It was silent before it went for the MOT and I have not hit any potholes or kerbs and whilst I do not want to do their heads in much more.. driving around with this sound does not feel particularly safe (even though it is not a giant cloking sound or anything) and it has not been resolved thus far. At the least I don't wnat to leave it to eventually wear some other parts out if somehting is not quite right.

Thanks

[Northern Bongolow]

My first check would be the brake pads and discs are not contaminated and packing shims behind the pads, have the pads got a leading edge on the rotation facing edge?. Have the shims got lubricant between them and the brake pad?. Are the pad retaining springs/clips present. Has the wheel been put on correctly, has the wheel support ring on the hub face been cleaned of debris/ corrosion, has the wheel inner ring been cleaned, both need a smear of lubricant before fitting to stop the wheel if alloy corroding with the hub etc.

[BongoBongo123]

Thanks for the tips there I will print that and give it to them. I imagine they probably have looked at these things they have checked it out twice since the dust covers were done, but I cannot be sure. Appreciated.

[teenmal]

There is a possibility that it could be coming from the MacPherson strut assembly components , your mechanic will know how to check components.

As a matter of interest does it still groan on a very wet day. No pun intended.


Might sound obvious , make sure the mud flaps are fully back from the wheel rotation area.

[BongoBongo123]

Thanks for the added info Teenmal. Will check flaps easy to do that. It does seem to groan as it was today
and has been a bit wet, once when I did go to garage I think for the 3rd time after rain it had quietened down
so it was like I had to drive it around a bit (brake disk heating maybe dried it out ?) So the answer is... a bit complicated.

[BongoBongo123]

Here are a few photos... I do note some hammer damage on the leading edge of the wishbone close the its pointy end (drivers side offside where groan comes from), seemingly where someone some time has give it a good smack and has misshapen the leading edge seam (risting a bit there). I am not sure if that would be enough to cause misalignment of something ?

Drivers side (off side) with the groan high res photos, nicely zoomable:

https://ibb.co/pdxfTLq

Near side passenger no groan :

https://ibb.co/fNN4KTQ

The short version I am trying to sum up...

1) Both dust covers nearside and offside changed due to ingress of dirt. Lower ball suspension joint
2) Repaired
3) Groaning on drivers side in last few meters of breaking
4) First time taken back "Resolved" by grease packing into balljoint
5) Second time "Resolved" by freeing sticky brake caliper
6) Third time back..."can only start replacing parts but that would be guesswork"
7) One guy suggested, it might be a "slider" that is not releasing properly.

The groan is kind of rubbery in nature rather than a metal on metal scraping sound.

Always hard when you were not there when your vehicle worked on by third party. Maybe the slight leading edge damage to the wishbone was there before
the dust covers were replaced. No groaning noises at all before it had MOT fail dust covers done though.

I am currently leaning towards taking it to a another local garage to see if they can find something easy that has been missed
or resolve the issue by other diagnosis. It is not unreasnable to lose confidence in the garage at this stage, even if I cannot really
fully say it was their fault. All I have is it was fine before you touched it and now it is not fine.

I find my self in a pickle with the Bongo over and again. I am not a mechanic and can only really apply common sense to the
sequence of events. I have been going to this garage for a while and it has been pretty good with them until now. You know for the
routine stuff and MOT (they take it to a another garage with MOT licence and resolve MOT failures for me) and I use them as their
rates are a bit lower (I think anyway).

Is my rationale off ?

(I guess this scenario can happen with any car.. however I have noticed in 8 years of ownership drop links and ball joint dust covers have been done over and again, at least twice each, maybe even 3 times for drop links and I do only 5,000 miles a year or less. I drive the Bongo with sympathy to its age (and my pockets!).I don't bang the kerbs and don't hit potholes. I am a moderate and smooth driver.

[g8dhe]

I seem to recall that the drop-links come in a range of qualities and the cheaper end don't last long at all!
As to garages I have found in the past that the age of the mechanics has a significant bearing on the quality of the work, but as I noticed with my preferred garage as they aged and got closer to retirement age then there seemed to be no end of short cuts being taken, fortunately they sold the garage as a going concern to a younger set of guys who were quite happy to spend time on learning the ins and outs of Bongo's and have hence built up a reputation locally on them so I will continue using them Even if the new van doesn't have, at the moment, as much work needing to be done!

[Northern Bongolow]

Try a squirt of wd wotsit into the anti roll bar bushes to chassis they can creak as the load alters during braking, also the strut top had a rubber doughnut in-between the strut top and the body I've replaced these in the past

[BongoBongo123]

Thanks for further thoughts. Is that the near vertical piece of metal with the ball joint on end (anti roll bar ?) thx.

[BongoBongo123]

I have done what was suggested Northern.. I got under and spotted some of those dry looking areas with the rubbers (bascially things that move other than brakes where grease obviously doe not mix well). I opted for a grease smear into those areas. I think I found 3 places to smear/push in a little grease. It seems to have quietened things down a bit which is interesting. It seems at least to have had some impact on the noise for now still slight scuffing sound on braking but reduced by 80pct at a guess so far. It may not be a complete fix I suspect I will monitor it for a few days as I drive about here and there. You know how it goes one day it can quieten next it comes back so I won't count my chickens quite yet.

I am aware that grease tends to attract dirt and dust so after a few days will rag off any excess that I can see after some has hopefully
worked its way into those dry looking areas with rubbers around them.

Thanks I will report back.

[Northern Bongolow]

Does this just happen every time the Mrs drives the bongo.
My Mrs groans and moans when I'm in the passenger seat maybe it's just that she doesn't like critism

[BongoBongo123]

Ha well the groan has turned into a more slight creeking and scuffing sound on the last few meters of braking but sadly it is still there despite a greasing of some moving parts. I think some of the gubblings to use the techy term surrounding suspension, steering and breaking was dampened down a bit by said grease up so it is quieter but the trutt be known something is still not quite right.

I don't really know what to do next to be honest I will think about it a bit. Either way it seems like hassles, tut.