Bongo Fury

Just going over similar posts in the forum now, but here's my (dire) situation:

- Got Bongo this year, used all summer, including a 2k mile roundtrip to Sweden, have done some cosmetic and electrical bits to it myself
- Cylinder head was replaced in last 10 years, coolant alarm is fitted

- Coolant alarm only went on when sat on drive after getting home - so hopefully no chance of driving on empty coolant
- Coolant had boiled off, but gurgled all the way home (short 5 min trip)
- The temp gauge was being watched carefully and it never jumped above the normal point
- Alarm screw didn't seem coated, as alarm went on and off as I filled the header tank trying to see-saw it full again
- When trying to turn it over/fire her up again it shot a good bucketful of coolant out of the exhaust. More than just moisture. Much more.
- No gunk under oil cap, none on dipstick, just oil by sight
- Water seen when pulling out a cable-tie from glow-plug hole on cylinder 2. Potentially in 1, haven't checked 3/4 yet (if 1 is to the front...).

So next I don't know what's best, to start taking apart (have a friend who's up for helping me put it back together, new gasket etc. - has all gear and knows his way about) or to just call in a pro.

A neighbour (HGV driver) suggested that the last time the cylinder head was done, the block might not have been planed - would that be needed or likely? I'll dig through the receipts/history to see if there's any mention of it.

Otherwise I'm open for advice on what you think's a decent next move to get us back on the road for the spring!

Cheers.

- Got Bongo this year, used all summer, including a 2k mile roundtrip to Sweden, have done some cosmetic and electrical bits to it myself
- Cylinder head was replaced in last 10 years, coolant alarm is fitted

- Coolant alarm only went on when sat on drive after getting home - so hopefully no chance of driving on empty coolant
- Coolant had boiled off, but gurgled all the way home (short 5 min trip)
- The temp gauge was being watched carefully and it never jumped above the normal point
- Alarm screw didn't seem coated, as alarm went on and off as I filled the header tank trying to see-saw it full again
- When trying to turn it over/fire her up again it shot a good bucketful of coolant out of the exhaust. More than just moisture. Much more.
- No gunk under oil cap, none on dipstick, just oil by sight
- Water seen when pulling out a cable-tie from glow-plug hole on cylinder 2. Potentially in 1, haven't checked 3/4 yet (if 1 is to the front...).

So next I don't know what's best, to start taking apart (have a friend who's up for helping me put it back together, new gasket etc. - has all gear and knows his way about) or to just call in a pro.

A neighbour (HGV driver) suggested that the last time the cylinder head was done, the block might not have been planed - would that be needed or likely? I'll dig through the receipts/history to see if there's any mention of it.

Otherwise I'm open for advice on what you think's a decent next move to get us back on the road for the spring!

Cheers.[/quote]
You dont say what engine you have but I am assuming its a 2.5 TD.
From what you state I would go for pulling the head off and having it crack tested, checked for warp and erosion.
Unbolt the head a bit at a time using the reverse of the tightening sequence.
Whilst the head is off you should raise each piston in its cylinder, they will go two at a time, to TDC and measure from the piston top to the block face, use feeler gauges, to see if any piston is lower than any other, if they are all the same and pending results from the engineers reassemble using new head bolts.
It is best practice to change the thermostat too.
Now would be a good time to thoroughly flush the cooling system through. Take out the old stat and after its back together run engine up with a decent flushing agent following the instructions. Drain back flush and fit the new stat using a Mazda one, I think they have them in the bongo shop.
Now you need to try and find out what caused it to go?
You may get some clues from the old gasket so it may be a good idea to let the engineers take a look at that when you drop the head off to them.
Did you have any starting issues prior to this event? Symptoms can show as slow turning over of the engine ,misfire on initial start up, slow cranking on hot start,starter locking momentarily, issues with coolant that sort of thing?
Good luck and keep us posted.

Hi just read your post, had my head gasket done four months ago its gone again, n o water at all in header tank cant under stand, cant find a leak, puzzled and desperate no transport my mechanic is off until mid jan,

Hi Guys

Warm welcome to you both, and really sorry to hear of your problems.

So we can help a bit could you please give us a rough location, Ie Stafford or South Devon, not your post code.

Before replacing the head it is vital to find out why it failed and fix the underlying problem, otherwise it will just go again.

Bwivv, where was yours done, diy, Bongo Friendly garage?

Bongovi, can your friend who 'Knows his way around' explain the bleed method to you? Or (hopefully not) the all too common, 'I know what I'm doing'?

Worth asking this question before you go further.

Keep us updated and we'll help all we can.

Hi Bob, my gasket was repaired four months ago by a lovely experienced man, so puzzled, he is unavailable until mid jan, thinking of hiring a car bit pricey though, Thanks for getting back, maybe the engines got a problem?

Rather a problem that he is away but he will see you right on his return.

Someone might have an idea for a cheap run about for a month.

Bob wrote:Hi Guys

...
So we can help a bit could you please give us a rough location, Ie Stafford or South Devon, not your post code.

Bongovi, can your friend who 'Knows his way around' explain the bleed method to you? Or (hopefully not) the all too common, 'I know what I'm doing'?

Cheers for the welcome, Bob. He's rebuilding a mini on Youtube at the moment [1], you can see for yourself. He's no Bongo specialist, but has a fairly solid mechanical background. He'd certainly be able to help me re-assemble with new parts. We tried the bleed method from the Youtube videos, but unfortunately when we tried to turn it over we found that most of the coolant was making its way into the exhaust system and spewing out the back.

Are we right to suspect that it's likely this is through a cracked cylinder head now? I'd love for it not to be, and I'm yet to do the pressure test suggested by Ady (footpump/innertube) to see if I can't track down a leak in the system elsewhere, but that much coolant in the exhaust might be conclusive to one of you with more experience?

Based in the East Midlands (between Derby/Nottingham/Leicester) and happy to work with a kit like at this link I saw in the forums [2] if I really have to... obviously trying to avoid that but if needs must, there's no way we're going Bongo-less next year . Also my wife did find this example for a very good price, FSH, lady owners, reasonable mileage, under market price. Rust issues we're more or less on top of, electrics I mostly fixed, just a potentially bad previous cylinder head job, or an issue with the system? Either way I think we'd not be too much worse off for repairing, thanks to the initial price.

We also have a Focus to get around in, which we'd nearly tried to sell, so we're not in dire straits just yet. Sorry to hear about your situation bwivv, and Bongolia I'm working on a reply to you - thanks *very* much.

[1] https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCJgj2H ... A-_nxf-eGw
[2]http://mazdabongo.com/product-category/ ... tr-diesel/

Quick addition to the above, if it helps. Found the invoice for head work from 2007, in Dorset. Line items were:

- Pressure test cylinder head (passed OK)
- Supply and fit 4 new P'chambers
- Reface head
- Remove camshaft etc./wash+refit, adjust tappets
- "COL/DOL"
- Head set
- Head bolt set

Total just under £500 - all work done 10 years ago, done many miles since, of course, so probably irrelevant. Can at least rule out a non-skimmed head.

EDIT: Maybe also confirms head wasn't replaced after last 'incident'.

I suppose the question now is - is there any other way for coolant to get into the exhaust than through the cylinder head? It *seems* like I'm going to have to get hold of a new one if not.

If it is losing coolant with no other obvious reason for loss and if other relevant symptoms are present, it sounds to me like a new head and gasket, plus any other things it is relatively cheap to do at the same time by saving on duplicated labour costs (cambelt+tensioner, Mazda thermostat, water pump, new temp gauge sender, new glo-plugs) might be the best investment. Obviously confirm head/gasket failed after dismantling before going any further. I did exactly that 2 years ago. Costly (but so are many car bills on modern cars) but i saw it as necessary investment for a Bongoing future. I had had a new radiator the year before, and this is relevant in ensuring cooling system is doing its job well. Before all this, you could try u/v dye in the coolant and u/v torch to spot where coolant is being lost. Didn't work for me though and maybe thats because my 'leak' was through the engine/exhaust and the dye got burnt off.

bongovi wrote:Quick addition to the above, if it helps. Found the invoice for head work from 2007, in Dorset. Line items were:

- Pressure test cylinder head (passed OK)
- Supply and fit 4 new P'chambers
- Reface head
- Remove camshaft etc./wash+refit, adjust tappets
- "COL/DOL"
- Head set
- Head bolt set

Total just under £500 - all work done 10 years ago, done many miles since, of course, so probably irrelevant. Can at least rule out a non-skimmed head.

EDIT: Maybe also confirms head wasn't replaced after last 'incident'.

I suppose the question now is - is there any other way for coolant to get into the exhaust than through the cylinder head? It *seems* like I'm going to have to get hold of a new one if not.

It could just be the gasket again. Either way round you are going to have to get the head off to find out.

water can get into the exhaust system via a knackered turbo, it is water cooled.you could clamp them off temporarily to maybe illiminate, dont drive it or rev it like that though.
ps. its also oil cooled too, so check the oil too, worth dropping it it see if its got water in, if not just put it back in.

a fair way of checking the head is to remove the rocker cover and check the cam shaft, these can break when the head overheats under the bearings so cannot be seen, rotate the camshaft to make sure it all rotates properly, then put a straight edge/rule on the head and see if the head has lifted in the centre, because it has stretch bolts the centre lifts quite easily when overheated,
also check the exhaust valve settings on the suspected cylinders, usually 2 or 3, cracks in the valve area (where they usually crack) can cause corrosion/distortion around the valve seat so affecting the valve/rocker setting.

bongovi wrote:Just going over similar posts in the forum now, but here's my (dire) situation:

- Got Bongo this year, used all summer, including a 2k mile roundtrip to Sweden, have done some cosmetic and electrical bits to it myself
- Cylinder head was replaced in last 10 years, coolant alarm is fitted

- Coolant alarm only went on when sat on drive after getting home - so hopefully no chance of driving on empty coolant
- Coolant had boiled off, but gurgled all the way home (short 5 min trip)
- The temp gauge was being watched carefully and it never jumped above the normal point
- Alarm screw didn't seem coated, as alarm went on and off as I filled the header tank trying to see-saw it full again
- When trying to turn it over/fire her up again it shot a good bucketful of coolant out of the exhaust. More than just moisture. Much more.
- No gunk under oil cap, none on dipstick, just oil by sight
- Water seen when pulling out a cable-tie from glow-plug hole on cylinder 2. Potentially in 1, haven't checked 3/4 yet (if 1 is to the front...).

So next I don't know what's best, to start taking apart (have a friend who's up for helping me put it back together, new gasket etc. - has all gear and knows his way about) or to just call in a pro.

A neighbour (HGV driver) suggested that the last time the cylinder head was done, the block might not have been planed - would that be needed or likely? I'll dig through the receipts/history to see if there's any mention of it.

Otherwise I'm open for advice on what you think's a decent next move to get us back on the road for the spring!

Cheers.

This is one of the reasons that this type of alarm has been found to be unreliable.
If in Any doubt stop the engine ASAP let it cool down and check the level.

Anyway Good luck.

Bongolia wrote: It could just be the gasket again. Either way round you are going to have to get the head off to find out.

Now that the festivities have passed (happy new year, bongo-ers), I've started dismantling. Spent a few hours on it already, but currently blocked at the large EGR pipe nut on the turbo side which just won't budge, even after 3 x 5min blowtorching/knocking and dousing in 'penetrating fluid'. Borrowing a long bar next, will try to lovingly ease it after a final heating.

Managed to shear a turbo bolt, but a bit of thread still protruding, so not too concerned yet. Broke a few brittle hoses next to where the fuel lines go - seem easily replaceable (?) and just figuring out which bits I need to remove to get the exhaust (inlet?) manifold off. Then it's the cam and head bolts and we can finally see if the gasket is gone and maybe have the head pressure tested/skimmed.

Will report back when I know more!

@Northern Bongolow - cam seems in good shape at first look. Not sure where to drain oil from turbo - will have a closer look.

@mikeonb4c - thanks for tips on various other bits to replace at same time. Will try to 'get away' with not getting a new head gasket if possible, but aware that may be a false economy if not careful.

teenmal wrote:
This is one of the reasons that this type of alarm has been found to be unreliable.
If in Any doubt stop the engine ASAP let it cool down and check the level.

Anyway Good luck.

Noted - but it did seem very responsive when I was bleeding the coolant early on, so not the coated screw issue I've read about. Will be hyper-vigilant in the future.