Bongo Fury

Big Problems...

Right so an old problem seems to have resurfaced on our lovely bongo. I'll try and be concise.

A couple of years back we drove off without noticing a radiator leak. This led to a boiling header tank. We opted to have work done. I believe we had a new head gasket and had the cylinder head skimmed and put back in, as well as new radiator ect. Cost around a grand.

At the end of this the van was still running hot and the mechanics best advice was to take the thermostat out. (Although I've read since that's it's more likely he bodged the thermostat so it was always open). Either way, we knew this was just gonna mask the problem, but we didn't have a lot of choice since our mechanic was clearly not very keen to get back into it. Can't blame him really, we weren't too desperate to part with much more cash and I expect he was sick of the sight of the thing.

So. Fast forward around 18 months of fairly limited use, and some recent discussions we've been having with a bongo friendly garage near Cramlington (We are in Gateshead), and we've found that the small amount of white residue in the header tank is almost certainly a sign that the orginal issue has either resurfaced, or, perhaps more likely, never really went away.

Now. At the moment we have a functioning van which gets us from a to b.

It's been suggested we should consider doing a trade in for another vehicle, and that as long as it's a runner we'll get a few quid for it. I take the point, but I can't really see that we'd get more than £500 and part of me would rather take advantage of the fact that I have the van here now and either a) run it in to the ground, or b) fix it and benefit from the learning experience of fixing it.

Now I'm reasonably handy, in that I can generally manage anything anyone else can if I've got a bit of guidance, so what I really want to know is how hard is a head replacement really. I work offshore so when I'm back I do have a bit of time to get in to 'projects' like this.

One key question is can I do a head replacement on a slope, cos I live on a hill and if I'm to do the work at mine (which I'd rather do) it'll be a lot easier if I can. Not having a driveway is a bit of a pain like that.

Finally, for now, we've been driving it as I think I made clear, without the thermostat in. It still runs, but I'm concerned about how much damage I'll be doing the more I drive it. We've been told that it's ok to drive as long as it doesn't overheat, is that ok then? If so my concern should perhaps be more about the next big maintenance bill (and whether it's worth paying or just scrapping), than about dealing immediately with the cylinder head.

The other question is when I get into it. Can I expect to find that the cylinder head replacement fixes the issue?? I read on one forum that a guy had bought a bongo that had overheated, fixed the head, but then found he needed an engine replacement too!! How deep is the rabbit hole likely to go??

Any thoughts very welcome as ever. Thanks. Rob.

Have you had the system pressure tested to see if the head/gasket is still leaking?

I feel its worth fixing it properly assuming it needs a head I believe thius is around £1000 fitted?
Then you have a perfect van again

@ Winchman. Yeah that's my gut feeling too. And anyway, at least when I'd finished I'd know a lot more about cars than when I started. But I reckon it'll be more than that unless I do it myself. It was that much 2yrs ago without a new head. One of the concerns is that I'm not sure the van itself is in fantastic nick. It's got a fair amount of rust and that so...

Mikeonb4c it hasn't no, at least not recently. The guy at the bongo friendly garage said the white gunk residue was generally an indicator of oil trying to mix with the water/coolant mix under pressure, I've had my head in the sand since so haven't really started down the diagnoses/repair route just yet.

is it using either oil or water, if yes then you may be correct in thinking there's something amiss. but if no then it may be that the bongo wasnt bled correctly so they removed /butchered the stat to aid bleeding it.

a trip to a bongo savy garage may be a good idea, get a pressure test done on the cooling system,then a sniff test, then replace/check the stat is an original mazda part as they are better, then let them bleed it correctly and take it from there.

if the head/gasket was gone 99% of them drive coolant out of the expansion tank, is yours doing this.??.

winchman wrote:I feel its worth fixing it properly assuming it needs a head I believe thius is around £1000 fitted?
Then you have a perfect van again

I fail to understand why anybody should RISK £1000.00 on a ATTEMPT to repair a vehicle that is probably worth £1000.00 or even less.

That's interesting Northern Bongolow. We discovered when we had the original problem that we didn't have the proper bleed hose (actually no hose and nothing to attach it too) which was a little worrying. To get it to the garage I bodged a bleed hose extension and we bled the system as per the you tube video. It leaked a lot on the way over but we kept it topped up and it did the job. We told the garage to fit the proper bleed hose, but they took the we know better attitude and set something up so supposedly it now bleeds automatically. I was profoundly sceptical I have to say, and remain so, but I was offshore at the time so it was somewhat out of my hands.

Thats what's weird though. We don't seem to be getting through coolant or oil much at all, although having said that we're not doing a great deal of mileage. I'd best get that pressure test and report back.

@ Teenmal. Well it's only worth sub £1000.00 cos it's not running properly. The £500 is a trade-in guesstimate, and a loose one at that (ie I made it up). But yeah, if I do it I'll be doing it myself. I'm not paying for someone to take it apart and put it together again again. Everything I've read makes it seem like you're mostly pay for the labour just cos it's fiddly.

Beirdo wrote:@ Teenmal. Well it's only worth sub £1000.00 cos it's not running properly. The £500 is a trade-in guesstimate, and a loose one at that (ie I made it up). But yeah, if I do it I'll be doing it myself. I'm not paying for someone to take it apart and put it together again again. Everything I've read makes it seem like you're mostly pay for the labour just cos it's fiddly.

The choice is yours..

Good Luck.

What's the oil like? Is there any gunge in it, if there is then it could well have water in it and not be lubricating properly. I'd be inclined to take the cam cover off and have look at what state the cam etc is in. If it's badly pitted that could indicate the oil hasn't been doing it's job and you might have other serious problems with bearings etc.

Have you been bleeding it on the slope because I can't see that would work well either.

@ briwy. Well it hasn't needed bled since we had the work done ages ago, cos the coolants never dropped below the line, also, because the garage in their infinite wisdom didn't fit a bleed pipe we still can't bleed it, but they assure me that it's now apparently self bleeding. (I remain fairly unconvinced). When we did bleed it we did it on the flat. It's back lane though so by laws say no parking. It's fine for bleeding or short periods of parking, but not really a suitable site to begin exploratory mechanics.

teenmal wrote:

winchman wrote:I feel its worth fixing it properly assuming it needs a head I believe thius is around £1000 fitted?
Then you have a perfect van again

I fail to understand why anybody should RISK £1000.00 on a ATTEMPT to repair a vehicle that is probably worth £1000.00 or even less.

In my experiance I have found if you can establish the fault then spend the money fixing it then you have a vehicle thats right.
If you trade it in you have another unknown.
I replaced the head on my car at 175000 miles cost £500, its now done over 200,000 and drives like new, of course I could have scrapped it and bought another £500 car but again its an unknown.
The OP needs to sit down and weigh up the money he has to invest in a vehicle and what best suits his needs, then decide how to spend it, you must remember if you spend say £8000 on another you will loose £1000 when you drive off the fore court.
I would fix it but thats me as I believe in keeping vehicles on the road and not throwing them away.

winchman wrote:

teenmal wrote:

winchman wrote:I feel its worth fixing it properly assuming it needs a head I believe thius is around £1000 fitted?
Then you have a perfect van again

I fail to understand why anybody should RISK £1000.00 on a ATTEMPT to repair a vehicle that is probably worth £1000.00 or even less.

In my experiance I have found if you can establish the fault then spend the money fixing it then you have a vehicle thats right.
If you trade it in you have another unknown.
I replaced the head on my car at 175000 miles cost £500, its now done over 200,000 and drives like new, of course I could have scrapped it and bought another £500 car but again its an unknown.
The OP needs to sit down and weigh up the money he has to invest in a vehicle and what best suits his needs, then decide how to spend it, you must remember if you spend say £8000 on another you will loose £1000 when you drive off the fore court.
I would fix it but thats me as I believe in keeping vehicles on the road and not throwing them away.

I'm inclined to agree, provided the Bongo otherwise has plenty of life in it ( i e no serious rust problem)

Would it be cheaper to bung in a complete engine ? Obviously this is unknown too, but the engine could be tested before hand.

As others have said. If your Bongo is otherwise in good condition, with no serious rust, it would be worth more than the repair cost once it is running right. Is yours a full conversion? If so, that would make it even more worth while given they hold much higher prices.

If you decide to fix this on the road make sure you have plenty of tax and MOT. The latter is difficult to get if the job drags on.

Edit: The garage could make a lot of money selling their "Self Bleeding Kit" on Ebay. I wish.