Cold starting issue (yet again, sorry)

[ziggi]

I’ve now had this issue for a couple of years and I notice by doing a search that others have also had this same problem (including my post 18 months ago), so here’s the thing

Did anyone actually solve the problem on here?

Here’s a brief list of stuff that I’ve done or had done, but should mention that I’ve still got the problem.

1) Replaced both the ‘choke’ sensors (they control the AC unit also)
2) Tried replace the Fuel pump & Filter
3) Replace rear muffler (see thoughts about exhaust below)
4) Glow plugs checked & replaced
5) Had compression checked
6) Changed Battery and had connections checked & replaced

This is what I can remember, and as you can see I’ve tried a few things to get it solved, but with no solution.

At the moment I do the same as others on here, turn key, wait for click (15sec’s) and turn over and leave for 10 – 15 min’s before driving.

Here are a couple of things I’ve noticed over the past year, and I’m wondering if they could be linked to this problem.

1) Could this be an electrical fault? (don’t laugh) I’ve noticed that on the radio the small main panel doesn’t light but the rest of the radio front panel does, but on the rare occasions that the van runs fine I’ve noticed that this panel is lit. When the Battery & connections were replaced this panel was lit for a while, but has now gone again.


2) Could it be as simple as related to the Exhaust system? Could the exhaust system be too small, if it was replaced before I purchased the van, was it replaced with the wrong one? Cars etc stall when the exhaust is blocked (thinking banana trick from childhood) there’s also another reason for thinking this, my manifold gasket has blown for the 3rd time in 2 years, is it too restricted? This van has no real ‘power’ to it, but now that the manifold gasket has blown again it is ‘smoother’ Also maybe linked, when we lived or drive at altitude she runs ‘dreadfully’ missing, no power, stalling.
Here’s my thinking, when start from cold you get more exhaust, could this be backing up and stalling the engine, until it’s warm and exhaust thins out and it can cope better

Any firm answers yet?

Andy

[Northern Bongolow]

things i would check.
although the solenoids are working ( i pressume the new ones do) and you can hear them click, is the throttle cable adjusted correctly so that the throttle is picked up. can you see the vac unit pulling up the linkage etc, recent findings have found that the rev level when warming up is critical, if they go above 950 the glow plugs are switched off.
this vibration and rough running may put stress on the exhaust system and cause the gasket to fail.
how has the gasket failed, is it blowing out or sucking in ??.

take the rear box off the exhaust temporarily, you dont need it, and there will be little increase in noise, just to test though.
has the assembly of the exhaust parts been done right, or is it partially blocked.

check the waste gate is operating in the turbo it may be stuck, and is it the correct turbo it should have a model number stamped on it on its inner face nearest the engine.

from your description i would check the turbo first as it seems to point to a general performance breathing problem.
i have the 2 halves split already going spare if you need to borrow to try.

[g8dhe]

Has the voltage on the Glow Plugs been monitored to see what is actually being applied during the whole of the starting period period? If your able to check this then that might explain the problem with the light on the radio - at the moment it seems unlikely that it is associated with the starting problem.

[ziggi]

At Ady
Solenoids seem to work ok, when starting seems to rev' in the region of 900 - 925. No vbration upon starting normally.
Gasket fails in the same way, blowing outwards, not had any sucking in up to now.
I'll try that with the rear box, as soon as the rain stops. I had a new rear box put on 14 months ago, made no real differance, so I'll be interested to see what it's like without it.
Any idea how to check the waste gate? I had the Turbo replaced 14 months ago as a part of trying to solve this issue, taken from another Bongo from a nice gent in Whangarei who seemed to know his stuff (next time I'm down there i'll pop in and see him, lost his tel') and gargage didn't pick up any issues with it.
I live in New Zealand, so I'll have to pass on your kind offer about the loan of the parts.

At Geoff
I'm going to have to assume that Glow plug were checked as a part of the Glow plug and Battery replacement, the garage seemed very concerned about this area as being the cause, and it did improve the problem, but not solve it. The radio screen stay off all the time, it only comes on very rare, so your probally right, but I thought I'd mention it just in case.

So I guess that the other people on here didn't get it actully solved then?

Is this a 'common' problem and we just 'put up with it'?

Thanks for your thoughts & input.

Andy

[Northern Bongolow]

most peeps fit only good quality glow plugs (ngk). do a search on here for the options, it could just be poor plugs. have you got long or short plugs fitted.
if that doesnt help tr this link below.

http://www.igmaynard.co.uk/bongo/forum/ ... c4#p418217
on the turbo you will see a silver operating rod that pushes and pulls the waste gate open and closed when its affected by boost pressure, there are 2 always rusty screws holding the boost diaphram to the turbo body disconnect this in one way or another and see if it moves freely, to check its closing you really need to split the turbo by removing the clamp around the 2 halves like in the link i posted, one of the picks shows the wastegate.

[mikeonb4c]

You don't actually say what is at the heart of the problem. Lumpy running? Lots if smoke? Misfiring when you move off? Tickover too low? Only a problem first cold start of the day? etc.

I'm inclined geoffs suspicions: do you have quality gloplugs, properly working relay, and is the assembly receiving the grate it should? Good luck, keep us posted.

Ps - is your starter battery in good condition, and what is its AmpHr rating?

[mikeonb4c]

Errr for grate read voltage. Effing predictive text on this fone. Grrrr

[wonkanoby]

when you say wrong exhaust what do you mean in a bit more detail

how does bore compare to the right one

[ziggi]

The heart of the problem is the fact that it keeps cutting out when started from cold.
I notice there were a couple of others on here with the same issue, and the main reason for this thread was to see if they had solved the issue.
For me, this has been going on for 2 years, and i've been to 4 garages, and no one seems to KNOW what the problem is, which seems strange.
I'm wondering if the whole exhaust is too small in bore and resricting flow.
No other issues than manifold gasket blown out 3 times in 2 years, always blow out.
As for Batt' & glowplugs, all checked replaced (I asked & paid for top glowplugs, each time)

Thanks all your comments.

Andy

[Mark Norton]

I have had a problem for the last two winters where it would stall or cut out unless it had been running for a good 5 minutes or more. I solved this with two keys, so I could start the engine, then lock the Bongo and go back in.
That starting problem now, seems to have gone. The only major thing that I could find wrong with the engine was very tight tappets which I only found due to changing a leaking rocker cover gasket, I would never have suspected them as the engine was absolutly fine except on very cold mornings.