Bongo Fury

Hi Folks!

Here's the deal: my wife and I are on our honeymoon in our very own Bongo. We traveled from the west of Ireland where we live (I'm Irish), got married in France (she's French) and after a few weeks find ourselves down here in Albania (great spot!).

The thing is, we've been struggling with coolant leaking all the way down. We thought we had it sorted before we left but then we realised it still needed a topping up after longer drives. We brought it to a garage in France who found a leaking pipe next to the radiator. We set sail again, hoping the problem was fixed, but once more found our coolant levels were dropping. Now we're in Albania and after a crazy drive over some mountains found the coolant had dropped quite a bit, maybe 750ml. Apart from this, however, lady Bongo is driving beautifully.
So, here come the questions:

1. If, worst case scenario, we have driven it with no coolant, the engine has overheated, head gasket blown to smithereens, would we notice? Ie: Would it continue driving normally?

2. Can we continue to drive as long as we manually check the coolant every morning and top it up when necessary?

3. The temperature gauge never really gets over halfway, though it does move around below depending on conditions (hilly, warm-weather,etc). Could it be fried?

Bear in mind, Albanian garages might not be as much fun as they're cracked up to be so do-it-yourself style advice is probably most useful. Please be gentle too; far away from home, house on our back, scary doom and gloom messages won't help us sleep easier!

Thanks a bunch!
Cian

PS: I have scanned the forums and realise there is a lot already on coolant leaks. However, I'm operating with a limited tool kit, no real access to garage expertise and a 'just get by' kind of approach.

Hey,

Just re-read my post and realised I'd really like someone to answer "Yes" to question 2.

C

Felicitations to you both on getting married, and welcome to the forum! I wish we'd had our honeymoon in a Bongo!

Difficult situation.

In answer to question 1 - I don't think you'd get very far. DON'T DO IT.

In answer to question 2 - the correct answer might read something like "as long as coolant doesn't drop out of the header tank and introduce air locks into the system, then you should be okay to drive". Checking the level every morning and topping it up if necessary may qualify, but it's not the same. For example, what happens if you lose enough coolant by lunchtime to introduce air and continue driving in the afternoon...? Unfortunately, many header tanks are discoloured and it can be hard to determine level without removing the cap, which you shouldn't do if it's already hot. To be on the safe side, try and see the level on the header tank as often as you can and don't drive if it looks empty. Like I said, some can be hard to see. Edit: you also may not know if you popped a hose until it's too late, ie if the leak develops into a more major fault.

In answer to question 3 - if the temperature gauge is 'unmodified' then they have a massive dead zone in the middle (ie between 70 and 110 degrees or something like that, it will read the same). In these cases, it normally rises and sits just left of vertical and generally, if it moves above this, then you're already cooking. Modified gauges behave differently, and may sit higher or fluctuate more with varying load. Mason alarms also modify the behaviour. I don't know what you've got.


Can you locate any more of the leak? You may wish to remove the absorbant-lined plastic tray underneath (mine had a dozen 10mm head bolts or so), and leave it overnight over some cardboard. You may be able to locate the source of the continued leak this way.

Do you know about bleeding Bongos? Have a read up on the forum, watch the youTube videos... in short, educate yourself. Bottom line is that if air is introduced into the coolant system, you'll likely overheat, risking your head. The only way to eliminate airlocks is to bleed carefully. And if you want to get back, you need to know this. Not saying that it'll necessarily come to that, but if it does, you need to "Be Prepared".


Disclaimer: I'm no expert, but this is all offered in good faith. Others may have more to contribute.

In short - IF IN DOUBT, DON'T DRIVE! But above all, enjoy yourselves! Keep us posted.

Regards,
Matt.

The important question is - are you just topping up with plain water?

If the answer is yes you could be making matters worserer and worserer. The Bongo engine MUST have anti-freeze/coolant in the water as it contains an inhibitor that stops the alloy in the engine corroding away internally.
If you have been topping up with plain water get some anti-freeze concentrate NOW (and it must be concentrate NOT ready mixed) and just use that for topping up - do not use any more plain water.

scanner wrote:The important question is - are you just topping up with plain water?

If the answer is yes you could be making matters worserer and worserer. The Bongo engine MUST have anti-freeze/coolant in the water as it contains an inhibitor that stops the alloy in the engine corroding away internally.
If you have been topping up with plain water get some anti-freeze concentrate NOW (and it must be concentrate NOT ready mixed) and just use that for topping up - do not use any more plain water.

Will the corrosion thing be a problem short-term though? Don't want to panic the owners. Also, in this case, might some leak plugging product (Radweld?) be worth trying? Or are they always bad news for the choking of the coolant system (e.g. radiator) that might result (or do they not choke the system)?

IMO, short-term topping up should be with plain water only, unless you know for certain (i.e. You filled it initially) what type of coolant / antifreeze you have in the system.

It would be much better to make a solution weaker than mix incompatible coolants and sludge the system up.

Surely running on fresh water alone would not cause corrosion to start in the short term (a week or so)?

All IMO mind, and I'm no expert on the cooling system.

dave_aber wrote:IMO, short-term topping up should be with plain water only, unless you know for certain (i.e. You filled it initially) what type of coolant / antifreeze you have in the system.

It would be much better to make a solution weaker than mix incompatible coolants and sludge the system up.

Surely running on fresh water alone would not cause corrosion to start in the short term (a week or so)?

All IMO mind, and I'm no expert on the cooling system.

I might be wrong but I think the coolant adative raises the boiling point as well as the freezing point. Also you don't have to overheat to damage the head, an air pocket can cause a hotspot without the general temperature going over the limit. Again, I am not an expert, just someone who has been bitten hard and done a lot of reading on this sort of thing.

Hi
Sorry to hear of your plight
You may be lucky, or you may not regarding the head.
Can you identify the leaking hose?...if it is actually the hose itself, and not appearing to leak where it fits onto the stub on the rad, in which case you may see fluid on the join where the matrix is fixed to the tank...that will mean a bust radiator
If you can identify exactly what the problem is, you could get a part couriered to you within a few days!
DO NOT mix coolant, and water will do no harm in the system for a few weeks until you can empty and refill with coolant...I've done it myself and there is NO EVIDENCE of corrosion in the system.
I would say that if you are going to do this, then make sure that you are going to encounter no sub-zero temperatures!...and replace with proper mixed coolant ASAP.
There is a "Bleeding "video on Youtube for the Bongo, and if you follow that, then there is not too much risk
You will need no special tools other than spanners, pliers, screwdrivers. WEAR GLOVES for bleeding...it gets blister-hot holding funnels!
If worried, get the Bongo back to England via rescue services, if you are equipped with such...and contact again when you get back
DO NOT drive until repaired!
Park up, enjoy the rest of your break and make decisions
Cheers
Helen

dave_aber wrote:Surely running on fresh water alone would not cause corrosion to start in the short term (a week or so)?

Ohhhhh yes it can. You've never owned a Hillman Imp or Triumph TR7 (just two examples) with an all alloy engine then?

It's called corrosion, but it's more like "erosion" the alloy just flakes off and that can become the crud that settles out in and blocks the bottom of the rad.

http://www.barsleaks.net/faq.html#Why%2 ... 0Important
http://www.gc3.com/Default.aspx?tabid=85

I wasn't really suggesting running 100% plain water though, just questioning what the timescale for corrosion would be if you did.

The main point is that it would (IMO) be preferrable to top-up with plain water rather than potentially mixing coolant types with the well established issues that can be caused.

I know that if I was looking to top up my coolant in the Bongo and I didn't know 100% what was already there, it would be with plain water.

If I was thinking about adding a sufficient quantity to dilute the coolant mix sufficiently to be worried about corrosion / erosion then I really should not be just topping it up as I have a much bigger issue to deal with.

I don't know how long they have been topping up with plain water (if they have) but would agree that getting whatever is in there diluted as far as possible before adding any new coolant is not a bad idea.

I know from the experience of a pal, who had much the same problem as the OP (with a TR7) and had to top up with plain water for a while, that internal corrosion can occur very quickly indeed. Hillman Imps were also noted for such problems.

The electrolytic interaction between the steel pipes (that link the rubber ones), the iron block, the alloy head and the radiator/heater matrixes (whatever they are made of) is a complex one that the coolant is there to inhibit.

Hi
In this instance, using water as a coolant will not do any harm...It is NOT a Hillman imp, and no damage will occur in the short term...
Cheers
Helen

helen&tony wrote:Hi
In this instance, using water as a coolant will not do any harm...It is NOT a Hillman imp, and no damage will occur in the short term...
Cheers
Helen

OK have it your way, it probably doesn't have an alloy head either.

Hi
For a short while it won't hurt at all...alloys used have changed, and are as different now as Camembert is from Cheddar...but they're all cheese. Engines made of alloy had huge problems with corrosion back in the 60's, and additives were developed to prevent corrosion, and alloys changed to resist corrosion.....I worked in the labs that handled all the research into alloys in the auto industry in 68 when changes were occurring. The Imp was developed before a lot of the work was done...
As a matter of fact, I liked the Imp, and always wanted a Davrian, but never got one...BIG regret
Cheers
Helen

I hope Cian and his wife aren't stuck up a mountain somewhere...