Header Tanks
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- helen&tony
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Re: Header Tanks
Hi Ste
Catch you at a show in 30 years???...i'll most likely be dead by then...I'm seriously thinking of having my remains cremated in the Bongo...Viking Style...Kinda classy, don'cha think ...especially as there's only a crem in Sofia....
Hopefully living in France by then, anyway
Cheers
Helen
Catch you at a show in 30 years???...i'll most likely be dead by then...I'm seriously thinking of having my remains cremated in the Bongo...Viking Style...Kinda classy, don'cha think ...especially as there's only a crem in Sofia....
Hopefully living in France by then, anyway
Cheers
Helen
In the beginning there was nothing , then God said "Let there be Light".....There was still nothing , but ,by crikey, you could see it better.
- mikeonb4c
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Re: Header Tanks
Aha and phew! So you must be IOM3 I take it? Well we ought to get some header tanks to you for analysis and stress testing I reckon.keefysher wrote:Helenhelen&tony wrote:Hi
I've been thinking of a new tank for a while...just because i think a new one would look nice.
I'm in for a group purchase...but only if it's Mazda original.
Regarding failing of tanks..I suspect the tanks are HDPE , they are handling hot chemical liquid , under pressure at 1.1 bar, and they're old...so a failure rate at the 8-10 year mark would be normal.
If I can lay my hands on a new one, and it lasts another 1/2 dozen years, I'll be rather happy.
By the way, I asked Tony about the plastic...he agrees...he's a Dutch qualified plastics engineer at research level...worked at one of the world's largest companies...so I'm safe in my assumptions
Cheers
Helen
What a small world. I hold a LPRI. The PRI is now part of IOM3. I’m currently MIMechE, but am being persuaded by 2 of my sponsors to go for my Fellow. I sit on one committee, and am being asked to sit on the renewable energy one, but I don’t agree with some of the hype surrounding that particular subject. I just need to change my role to a direct Engineering responsibility one, as opposed to operations to then get my Fellow.
During my 20 years at the FTSE’s little known diamond I was involved in considerable research and development of polymeric materials and products. I spent time working with Akzo Chemie as they were at the time, as well as with Du Pont developing paraaramid (due to litigation it can’t be called Twaron or Kevlar). I was the industrial lead, taking the research done in Geneva in the case of DuPont, to commercialization, or otherwise. In the case of pararamid the primary objective of my then employer was to replace high tensile steel wire in haulage ropes with something lighter and stronger, hence paraaramid. That particular project failed in it’s primary objective, but a spin off was the failure mode allowed production of paraaramid into bulletproof clothing. Other spin offs and technology transfers included fibre optic cable production, tyre production, and co extrusion. Several patents were filed, as well as copyrights and trademarks.
The academics of the time were telling me I was defying the laws of physics, with what I achieved.
It was a wonderful time where knowledge gathering was incredibly fast paced. I worked with the major players in polymeric material, the likes of Bayer, Exxon, BASF etc developing myriad solutions to perceived problems.
An area of great success that I am personally very proud of was the identification of previously common practice and use of materials that were discovered to be carcinogens. To overcome the risks to health I was responsible for developing oil damped and polymer bound smalls as they are called. The small parts of materials that give the curing, protection, processing properties of polymeric compounds be they plastic or rubber. The secret is often in the processing methods not the final product service requirement. One major carcinogen was found to be the agent that gave the opacity properties of plastics. At the time, the cosmetics and retail sectors were seeking ever more ranges of clarity and colour of containers for their products. The identification of the carcinogen was a set back in the ‘image’ stakes and led to a change in reagent that led to leeching in applications such as industrial containers where the clarity of colour was not considered a primary concern.
This work was a primary driver in the COSHH regulations in the UK. It was also a time when my then employer was recognized as the benchmark for health screening, employee welfare, and safety of operations in chemical environments.
Other areas of involvement were short fibre reinforcing of plastics, rubber and concrete. What is commonly called glass filled nylon was quite a challenge as nylon absorbs up to 3% moisture dependant on grade, the fibre content is critical dependant on final properties required, as is fibre type e.g. monofilament vs. multifilament, fibrillation, fibre length, surface area. I challenged the world’s largest steel wire and tyre cord producer to move away from multifilament nylon to monofilament polyester for a weft-reinforced product that was unique to my employer’s product. From that development, and the knowledge gained from the paraaramid development, we worked in collaboration to develop short steel fibre reinforced concrete.
I’ve also been involved in automotive Tier 1&2 supply of rubber and plastic components, being awarded most improved performance in supply chain by General Motors Europe.
I wonder if your Tony and my paths crossed at some time. Lots of my contemporary peers are either retired or in their graves now. If we were coming to the Bulgaria meet we could have chewed the cud as it were.
Good heavens, it looks like I’ve caught the writing bug from mikeonb4c, must be the sun on my neck from the long weekend away.
I'm proud of my pedigree and heritage in my professional life.
I've always had a fondness for empirical methods (for those wondering, its a sort of 'let stuff do stuff and watch what happens, then wonder why it might have done it' approach to things). I'm genuinely interested now to see how long the header tank (and other components in my cooling system) may last in what seems to have historically been a properly maintained Bongo (for as much as one can know in the absence of a proper service history). On that score, I'm relying on the (ostensibly failsafe) LCA to let me know when something has 'let go' (so don't let me down Haydn ).
As for my having the writing bug on here, I was always being told off by BFers when I complained about lack of time to get jobs done. They observed that if I spent less time on BF I might get more done. True, but then a large part of the fun of Bongo ownership for me (and it really helps reduce fuel consumption) is yapping away on here enthusiastically about anything and everything Bongo
Re: Header Tanks
Post deleted by Admin, as it is clearly baiting by someone not brave enough to do it under their own name
- mikeonb4c
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Re: Header Tanks
Its a good thing then that you are not an investigator.
And the likes of the Wright Brothers, Patrick Moore et al are all not experts, but the world would be much poorer if they had not been born, and I for one am tired of listening to 'experts' who fail to get it right, or else don't care to and are let off the hook by their chummy old chums. A little humility from them wouldn't go amiss.
As for the 'poor hapless customer'. Well, as with any market, they should study form and buy wisely. We can help them in this, by playing devils advocate and by passing on thoughts, advice and snippets, but we certainly won't help by harrassing and driving away entrepreneurs who throughout history have been the driving force in bringing new products to market.
For heavens sake grow up, before you get the nickname 'Half a Brain'. Don't hide behind false avatars (whoever you are), don't generalise (or libelise - that a word? hope so ), and work instead to moderate the excess of commercial zeal that so often characterises entrepreneurs (its as much in their nature as catching birds is to cats )
Post edited by Admin to remove quote from deleted post.
And the likes of the Wright Brothers, Patrick Moore et al are all not experts, but the world would be much poorer if they had not been born, and I for one am tired of listening to 'experts' who fail to get it right, or else don't care to and are let off the hook by their chummy old chums. A little humility from them wouldn't go amiss.
As for the 'poor hapless customer'. Well, as with any market, they should study form and buy wisely. We can help them in this, by playing devils advocate and by passing on thoughts, advice and snippets, but we certainly won't help by harrassing and driving away entrepreneurs who throughout history have been the driving force in bringing new products to market.
For heavens sake grow up, before you get the nickname 'Half a Brain'. Don't hide behind false avatars (whoever you are), don't generalise (or libelise - that a word? hope so ), and work instead to moderate the excess of commercial zeal that so often characterises entrepreneurs (its as much in their nature as catching birds is to cats )
Post edited by Admin to remove quote from deleted post.
Re: Header Tanks
Well said Mike, its very easy for naysayers to rubbish everything, luckily some people took a chance to improve things.
This whole false name and multiple identity thing is getting tiresome, I think those involved should ask themselves what good it does fellow Bongo owners to watch the forum equivalent of 'happy slapping' and name calling.
It is fascinating to see what backgrounds we all have, and I suspect that some of us have dealt with the same people in various roles.
Lets play to our strengths and try and improve the world of Bongoing!
As for the tank failures, could it be that the failures occur on the bottom of the tank a) because the inside is always covered in fluid, and b) because there are various cross sections as part of the degassing structures, leading to differing expansion rates and therefore stresses which could eventually lead to the cracks.
There could also be inbuilt stresses caused by the moulding process which eventually might lead to failure, and sometimes even differences between material batches.
This whole false name and multiple identity thing is getting tiresome, I think those involved should ask themselves what good it does fellow Bongo owners to watch the forum equivalent of 'happy slapping' and name calling.
It is fascinating to see what backgrounds we all have, and I suspect that some of us have dealt with the same people in various roles.
Lets play to our strengths and try and improve the world of Bongoing!
As for the tank failures, could it be that the failures occur on the bottom of the tank a) because the inside is always covered in fluid, and b) because there are various cross sections as part of the degassing structures, leading to differing expansion rates and therefore stresses which could eventually lead to the cracks.
There could also be inbuilt stresses caused by the moulding process which eventually might lead to failure, and sometimes even differences between material batches.
When asked about Western Civilisation, Ghandi said 'that would be a good idea'...
- haydn callow
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Re: Header Tanks
Lets get this stright.
Somebody on this forum said (words to the effect of) I have a slow/small loss of coolant and am having trouble tracking it down.
I replied "have a look at the bottom of your header tank".
Then the S**T starts to fly.....
All I did was pass on what I had observed for everyones benefit....I do not profess to be a plastics expert....however the Mk 1 eyeball can be quite useful..
Why don't you grow up and get a life......!!!
Somebody on this forum said (words to the effect of) I have a slow/small loss of coolant and am having trouble tracking it down.
I replied "have a look at the bottom of your header tank".
Then the S**T starts to fly.....
All I did was pass on what I had observed for everyones benefit....I do not profess to be a plastics expert....however the Mk 1 eyeball can be quite useful..
Why don't you grow up and get a life......!!!
- haydn callow
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Re: Header Tanks
Gotta agree with all that.....I doubt a tank showing even early signs of these "cracks" or indeed gone as far as actually weeping would suffer a huge and sudden coolant loss....even the one I removed from a bongo (weeping)was only losing about half a pint a month......bigdaddycain wrote:I'd go for the Alloy option! I've seen plenty on the show circuit with built in level sight strips.
The aluminium version would definitely take any pressure a bongo could chuck at it.
Now i'm no plastics expert, but i'd be VERY sceptical over a spurious plastic copy tank, sorry, but just my personal opinion.
I'd rather chance a good second hand original for a few quid i think.
I've only checked a few tanks, and there was an internal mark in the same place on each tank on the underside. The mark could not be felt by finger or nail, the surface was completely smooth. I'll stick my neck out and go so far to say that even if EVERY bongo tank has that "crack" then i doubt very much it'd fail in a healthy cooling system.
I know that Haydn has discovered a couple that have leaked here, i suppose that "crack" would be the weakest part of the chain... But to be perfectly honest, i'd be more concerned with what's going on in the coolant system to cause the inherent weak spot to fail in the first place!
You make an interesting point regarding the use of the Correct coolant Mikexgough.... Mine has always had OAT coolant in the system, is unstained, and appears to be crack free
I seem to be being attacked for bringing this to the forums attention.......there are those on here who are so full of their own importance they totally miss the point......A**E ..up...head
come to mind
- haydn callow
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Re: Header Tanks
Just had a Bongo round (not a forum member) who wanted a alarm fitting to try and monitor a annoying slight coolant loss (about a cupful a month).....Had a quick look round the hoses etc and nothing.....looked under the tank and there it was......problem solved......a year ago I would never have looked under there......
I replaced the tank with another that had signs of internal cracks but not actually leaking....
I replaced the tank with another that had signs of internal cracks but not actually leaking....
Re: Header Tanks
I am still interested in a group buy of original Mazda tanks ,or a good quality copy as recommended by HC , if the price is right .
Origo bio stove - no Bongo!
- haydn callow
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Re: Header Tanks
Anybody want to step forward ???
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- Supreme Being
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Re: Header Tanks
Just out of idle curiosity... I wonder just how many tanks it would take to qualify as a group buy? In other words, how many tanks needed for a worthwhile discount? Personally i wouldn't trust a spurious copy tank, i'd rather take my chances with my existing old tank.
I know brand spanking new tanks can be bought from JAS for £104, how many Mazda original equipment tanks would need to be bought to better that price? (as i'm sure JAS can afford more tanks than your average forum member! ) They'd need to work out at around £70 per tank (an original tank at that) to be worthwhile. That's no good if you have to buy 500 tanks to get that discount... You'd sell maybe 50 or so then lumbered with 450 odd tanks!
I suppose at least then they could be snapped up at a much more discounted rate?
I know brand spanking new tanks can be bought from JAS for £104, how many Mazda original equipment tanks would need to be bought to better that price? (as i'm sure JAS can afford more tanks than your average forum member! ) They'd need to work out at around £70 per tank (an original tank at that) to be worthwhile. That's no good if you have to buy 500 tanks to get that discount... You'd sell maybe 50 or so then lumbered with 450 odd tanks!
I suppose at least then they could be snapped up at a much more discounted rate?
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- mikexgough
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Re: Header Tanks
Some very cautionary thoughts there...... I guess, should anyone think about taking on this, phone calls need to be made to get the level of pricing/discount for amounts purchased.....then to find how many folks really want a new tank and make a decision from there if it goes ahead.......bigdaddycain wrote:Just out of idle curiosity... I wonder just how many tanks it would take to qualify as a group buy? In other words, how many tanks needed for a worthwhile discount? Personally i wouldn't trust a spurious copy tank, i'd rather take my chances with my existing old tank.
I know brand spanking new tanks can be bought from JAS for £104, how many Mazda original equipment tanks would need to be bought to better that price? (as i'm sure JAS can afford more tanks than your average forum member! ) They'd need to work out at around £70 per tank (an original tank at that) to be worthwhile. That's no good if you have to buy 500 tanks to get that discount... You'd sell maybe 50 or so then lumbered with 450 odd tanks!
I suppose at least then they could be snapped up at a much more discounted rate?
So far not even a handful of owners have declared an interest on the thread and at the JAS price, will this actually be worth doing? - Anyone agree or disagree with that?
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- Supreme Being
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Re: Header Tanks
Good idea Mike... If it was my venture, (no thanks) then firstly i'd be wanting to establish exactly how many new tanks would definitely be bought by members before i even attempted to group buy at a discount that can be passed on. Personally, i'm happy taking my chances with my old tank anyway... It's a risky venture for sure, i know i wouldn't want to be lumbered with dozens of tanks that i'd have to chance my arm selling on ebay or wherever
ビッグダディケイン RIP Big Bank Hank (Imp the Dimp) 1957-2014
- mikeonb4c
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Re: Header Tanks
Ditto - old header tank + LCA for me - I love high wire stunts as long as there's a safety net below mebigdaddycain wrote:Good idea Mike... If it was my venture, (no thanks) then firstly i'd be wanting to establish exactly how many new tanks would definitely be bought by members before i even attempted to group buy at a discount that can be passed on. Personally, i'm happy taking my chances with my old tank anyway... It's a risky venture for sure, i know i wouldn't want to be lumbered with dozens of tanks that i'd have to chance my arm selling on ebay or wherever
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Re: Header Tanks
With a venture that risky i wouldn't even climb the trapeze!
ビッグダディケイン RIP Big Bank Hank (Imp the Dimp) 1957-2014