Bongo Fury

A pity you weren't on here to scotch the rumours when they came up keefy.

My only contribution is that I was advised by a Bongo specialist that a new (or was it rebuilt) pump for the older Bongo would cost around £600. This same source suggested that the newer Bongos could be a lot more expensive to make an equivalent repair to.

It would be useful to have thoughts from regular trade contributors (Allans, Andy at 321Away, Paul at LPG Imports etc.) so we can put this one to bed once and for all.

PS - you might want to rename the thread to make its purpose clearer? e.g. Diesel pump cost: early vs. late models

well done for investigating this

mine is drive by wire and although ive not had any issues, i have been a little concerned here and there when i have read other threads and seen warnings refering to " drive or fly-by-wire "

at ease now

Sorry keefy - I can't see the contradiction. Could you expand?

321 have had fly by wire types rebuilt at a cost circa £800 by Merlin diesel systems, the prices stated in the first post are assumedly for 2nd hand units removed from a car? I know Mazda prices (TW White and Sons) for new fly-by-wire type is in the £3000 + region,hence paying £800 for rebuilds,
Julian

321Away wrote:321 have had fly by wire types rebuilt at a cost circa £800 by Merlin diesel systems, the prices stated in the first post are assumedly for 2nd hand units removed from a car? I know Mazda prices (TW White and Sons) for new fly-by-wire type is in the £3000 + region,hence paying £800 for rebuilds,
Julian

Thanks Julian. I reckon we can take that as chapter and verse then. It explains the (well founded it seems) rumours as well as bringing cheer to the hearts of those owning modern fly-by-wire Bongos.

BTW I helped out the friend of a friend of mine recently with advice on Bongos and he emailed me last week to say he'd gone and bought one.....from you., and was very happy with it Result all round and he sang your praises. I hope he's fitted an LCA for peace of mind (sure I advised him to)

It's not just the price of the pumps, but the removal,refit and set up.From recent personal experience, trying to get someone to work on these is very difficult.Many experienced highly recommended mechanics took one look and decided it wasn't for them.The local Mazda dealership didn't have a good word to say about the bongo,and they point blank refuse to look at them.So unless your close to a bongo specialist garage, your only alternative is a diesel injection specialist and as they guarantee their work they do everything and anything they deem nescessary as they obviously don't want it back after their finished. I would be interested to hear from anyone who has removed and replaced one of these pumps.How difficult is it? How critical is the refit in terms of the timing? If the front seals are replaced how can you be certain that the pump internal seals are ok without having the pump tested? My bongo feels like a different motor since it had the pump overhauled, much smoother when idling and seems to have a lot more zip when accelarating. I just wonder if these specialist guys have set the engine up better when refitting the pump and replacing the timing belt. It was a sore one at £850 but I have to say I'm delighted with the job they've done

Thanks for the up to date Info, Keefy..... Bell Hill or Wheelquick would have been my ports of call for a decent tested S/H Diesel Pump....
In fact Tom at Bell Hill sorted me when my Diesel pump rotor was breaking up inside the pump.....and dumped metal swarf into the injectors
On that note...... There is NO need to scaremonger about Diesel pumps as Bell hill only get 2 a year with issues, so in fact a very rare issue with Bongo's as the Pumps are very,very reliable

mikexgough wrote:There is NO need to scaremonger about Diesel pumps

I wish we could drop the emotive side of this debate (it isn't helpful) and just try and get down to the facts (which we seem to be doing quite well on this thread)

GOMEZ wrote:...The local Mazda dealership didn't have a good word to say about the bongo,and they point blank refuse to look at them.

I bet they would be singing the praises of Bongos if they had been allowed to distribute them. Probably wouldn't have been able to keep up with the demand and might have put the continental competition out of business, which is why they could never have them in the first place!

Frank

mikeonb4c wrote:

mikexgough wrote:There is NO need to scaremonger about Diesel pumps

I wish we could drop the emotive side of this debate (it isn't helpful) and just try and get down to the facts (which we seem to be doing quite well on this thread)

Apologies Mike, if you thought I was getting a bit extreme with my views but it is true that Diesel pump failure is not widespread among Bongo's (the pumps are Zexel (Japanese Bosch brand) and parts and prices (for now) are reasonable.
The Major cost with the diesel pump is not the pump itself but the labour to remove/replace set up and a new Timing belt while the pump is off...,,

To be honest, the removal/refitting of the fuel pumps on bongo's isnt that difficult, you dont need to remove the cambelt, just the cover. On the later shapes where the idel vacuum valves arent lovated on top of the engine its even easier. Refitting is only a pain as getting the woodruff key to locate can be tricky, just takes gentle adjustments on the crank to line them up nicely, there is no 'critical timing' on these as they are located/driven by a woodruff key meaning its impossible to get the pump timing wrong. the drive for the pump is direct from the crank and its actually the same drive point for the pump and cambelt.

i agree total pump failure is rare on these cars, but there can be lots of smaller problems caused by the pump not working as it should, idle,ecenomy,smoking,starting/cutting out etc

I think the problem is that people take these cars to garages or Mazda dealers who make out its huge/difficult work when its not and causes a scare factor that isnt warranted when most semi technically minded people are well capable of doing a majority of the jobs.

Julian

321Away wrote:To be honest, the removal/refitting of the fuel pumps on bongo's isnt that difficult, you dont need to remove the cambelt, just the cover. On the later shapes where the idel vacuum valves arent lovated on top of the engine its even easier. Refitting is only a pain as getting the woodruff key to locate can be tricky, just takes gentle adjustments on the crank to line them up nicely, there is no 'critical timing' on these as they are located/driven by a woodruff key meaning its impossible to get the pump timing wrong. the drive for the pump is direct from the crank and its actually the same drive point for the pump and cambelt.

i agree total pump failure is rare on these cars, but there can be lots of smaller problems caused by the pump not working as it should, idle,ecenomy,smoking,starting/cutting out etc

I think the problem is that people take these cars to garages or Mazda dealers who make out its huge/difficult work when its not and causes a scare factor that isnt warranted when most semi technically minded people are well capable of doing a majority of the jobs.

Julian

I only mentioned Timing Belt as I decided to have mine done while mine was down.... as while the cover is off.... why not change the belt.......... Most of the horror stories with Bongo's comes from the lack of knowledge and the lack of research as to how they work

mikexgough wrote:

mikeonb4c wrote:

mikexgough wrote:There is NO need to scaremonger about Diesel pumps

I wish we could drop the emotive side of this debate (it isn't helpful) and just try and get down to the facts (which we seem to be doing quite well on this thread)

Apologies Mike, if you thought I was getting a bit extreme with my views but it is true that Diesel pump failure is not widespread among Bongo's (the pumps are Zexel (Japanese Bosch brand) and parts and prices (for now) are reasonable.
The Major cost with the diesel pump is not the pump itself but the labour to remove/replace set up and a new Timing belt while the pump is off...,,

Cheers Mike - it wasn't meant personally, and this has turned out to be an excellent and informative thread that has nailed another important issue (thanks to keefy). Its easy to see though how the fear factor takes hold (and I'm sure, as Julian implies, it stems from yer non-techi owner breezing into a Mazda main dealer and asking about parts and labour)