Bongo Fury

1 Kidnap Pilot's wife
2 Take her back to headquarters
3 Issue demands

But seriously though.

1 Take apart all parts of the cooling system that i can and check for blockages.
Remove any corroded ends to the steel pipes.
Remove Radiator and fill with boiling water to find any blockages.
If any major blockages found then clear and try bleeding again

2 Test water pump (If anyone can tell me how to do this then that would be appreciated)
If pump fails or if there is no way to test then replace
Try bleeding again

3 Remove Head (Bongo's, not mine)
Visually check for cracks or should i get an engineering firm to do this?
Are they gonna visually look at it like me or do they have special tools to look inside the voids?
If not cracked then grind valves, check head for warping, clean mating surfaces, replace gasket
Should i replace head bolts?
Replace cambelt, adjust valve clearances(can this be done with the head on the bench? or does it need to be attached?)
If Cracked the aquire new head and as above.


That all sounds pretty straight forward to me as in finding the cheapest solution first.
Fitting a new pump when not knowing if the old one is knackered or not kinda makes sense to me. If i am gonna go to the trouble of removing the head especially then i would probably fit a new one to be safe. Chances are that the length of time the coolant had no antifreeze in it would mean that it was grinding crud and debris from the ends of the metal pipes anyways. My problems are a result of having no antifreeze, a failed radiator fan switch, neglect and not fitting my low coolant alarm in time. I urge you all look after your motors as it is a bit of a downer when they fail

Any help or advice that anyone wants to give me will be greatfully recieved. History of problem HERE (Link added my mod).

on 3 a specialist will pressure test the head for cracks about £50

yes the bolts are 1 use as they stretch

TDB you have a pm.

Your symptoms seem similar to mine. I suspect either my head or gasket is gone, but the pump has definitely gone (its leaking coolant from behind the pulley.). I'm hoping its JUST the pump though and it was sucking in air. When I talked to the dealer on the phone he said that the old one would be quite corroded when I got it out, so this seems to be nornal even with antifreeze. (I can't check - the new pump seems to be stuck in the Royal Mails undelivered parcel mountain).

You are right about changing the pump. Removing and replacing the head is a massive job compared to a water pump change. If you are going to spend days removing the head and around £500 for a new one, the £60 and an hour or so changing the pump fades into insignificance.

Reading the other post - It doesn't seem like you were bleeding right. The only way the water will go back in is if you raise the funnel. At an idle it needs to go above the level in the header tank. If the engine is reving hard it needs to be higher. If it is below the header tank then it will just syphon through.

One very important piece of advice. If you order any parts - specify courier delivery

Best of luck

Dave

If you have been trying to bleed the system with plain water
you stand very little chance of doing so. Without anti-freeze
and no system pressure, the water will boil and produce steam
before the thermostat opens. Anti-freeze raises the boiling
point by around 15 Celsius and stops this happening. Pump
cavitation will also reduce the boiling point of plain water
and add to the problem.

You should fill the system with a 50/50 solution of 2 year
standard anti-freeze which will also provide the correct
ratio of corrosion inhibitors. If you have been using the
correct anti-freeze solution each time you bleed the
system then I apologise for the suggestion.

Aethelric wrote:Your symptoms seem similar to mine. I suspect either my head or gasket is gone, but the pump has definitely gone (its leaking coolant from behind the pulley.). I'm hoping its JUST the pump though and it was sucking in air. When I talked to the dealer on the phone he said that the old one would be quite corroded when I got it out, so this seems to be nornal even with antifreeze. (I can't check - the new pump seems to be stuck in the Royal Mails undelivered parcel mountain).

You are right about changing the pump. Removing and replacing the head is a massive job compared to a water pump change. If you are going to spend days removing the head and around £500 for a new one, the £60 and an hour or so changing the pump fades into insignificance.

Reading the other post - It doesn't seem like you were bleeding right. The only way the water will go back in is if you raise the funnel. At an idle it needs to go above the level in the header tank. If the engine is reving hard it needs to be higher. If it is below the header tank then it will just syphon through.

One very important piece of advice. If you order any parts - specify courier delivery

Best of luck

Dave

well it is the first time I bled the cooling system and I might have been doing it wrong. I ran a strap over the roof and through the doors and hung the funnel from that. It was well above the height of the header. I made sure it never run dry and under low revving the level raised and spat out gas then dropped again, I figured this was trapped air. Under high revving over 3000 it really spat out gas and the level overflowed the funnel. It never dropped the level again though. On one attempt i managed to near empty the header tank.

patnben wrote:If you have been trying to bleed the system with plain water
you stand very little chance of doing so. Without anti-freeze
and no system pressure, the water will boil and produce steam
before the thermostat opens. Anti-freeze raises the boiling
point by around 15 Celsius and stops this happening. Pump
cavitation will also reduce the boiling point of plain water
and add to the problem.

You should fill the system with a 50/50 solution of 2 year
standard anti-freeze which will also provide the correct
ratio of corrosion inhibitors. If you have been using the
correct anti-freeze solution each time you bleed the
system then I apologise for the suggestion.

you are quite right I have been using plain water. Is it really necessary to use AF as I have already lost 3 loads of coolant water. It could get quite costly. My idea was to get it bled hen fill the header with the correct amount of AF whilst draining out from the bleed hose.

If you are trying to bleed the system with plain water, then
to be honest, you are wasting your time. Using anti-freeze
may be expensive; but peanuts compared to the expense
you are considering.

At the moment, your system should be almost full of clean
water, so remove the header tank cap and the bleed hose
bung with the outlet raised well above the header tank.

Remove the radiator drain plug and allow the system to
drain as much as possible, take your time, you will not
be able to drain more than 50% of the full volume of
water but this should be sufficient to add at least 6
litres of concentrated anti-freeze.

Replace the radiator drain plug and slowly add the AF
via the radiator cap, when the radiator is full; replace
the cap and add the rest via the header tank. you
should be aiming to get at least 6.5 litres of AF into
the system. If you have room; top up the header tank
with plain water to the full mark and then go and have
a cup of tea to allow everything to settle down.

Start the engine on tickover, leave the bleed hose
where it is and ignore it. Watch the expansion tank
level and top up with plain water where necessary.
Increase the revs to a fast tickover, no more than
about 1200 rpm. You should be able to do this for
at least 20 minutes before getting anywhere near
boiling point but to be sure stick your hand on the
front of the cylinder head, if you have to let go it's
getting too hot and the AF and water should be now
properly mixed.

Now you can start to bleed it properly. Most of the
air will be trapped in the 2 heating system radiators
and you need to purge these with high revs around
say 2500 rpm for short bursts until you can feel hot
air coming from both heating outlets. I would not be
concerned with air in the radiator return hose at this
point as it will probably stay full of water despite the
initial drain down and if you allow plenty of time, the
jiggle pin in the thermostat will pass any trapped air.

What is of utmost importance is that you do not
overheat the cylinder head. This is best acheived
with digital surface thermostats or an infrared
thermometer, without these; common sense is your
best alternative.

This is certainly not the quickest way to bleed the
system; but allowing plenty of time and observation
of the temperatures and header tank levels you
will get there in the end.

If you go to a motor factors, you should be able to
buy two 5litre containers of "Comma Super Coldmaster"
anti-freeze concentrate for around 18 pounds. This
is my preferred AF.

Good luck.

Can this really be true (about not being able to bleed a system with pure water in it?). I thought peeps had been testing thermostats to check they were opening OK, but putting them in a pan of hot water. That would suggest to me that the stat will open below the boiling point of water, thus allowing proper bleeding to take place.

I can see however that in operation, pure water will boil up at a lower temp than water/antifreeze although even so I'm uncertain whether it would make it unuseable

Stat's open at 82 degrees I think.

Lewy wrote:Stat's open at 82 degrees I think.

Yup, that figure sounds familiar. So you should be able to bleed OK even if filled with 100% water I reckon

OK so i can see nowt immediately wrong with the pump but i am guessing that if the chamfered edges of the fins are not close enough to the ring inside the block then there will be little or no pumpage as it were.
Gonna get a new one anyways.
Oh yeah, should it be spinning freely as it seems a bit stiff to me. There is no freeplay in the shaft/bearings though.

thedogsbollox wrote:
OK so i can see nowt immediately wrong with the pump but i am guessing that if the chamfered edges of the fins are not close enough to the ring inside the block then there will be little or no pumpage as it were.
Gonna get a new one anyways.
Oh yeah, should it be spinning freely as it seems a bit stiff to me. There is no freeplay in the shaft/bearings though.

From what you've said about coolant leaking from it, the pumps not right. The way I'd look at it is to say well it seems to need a new one (coolant leak from that area, feels stiff) and they are not that expensive , and it will at least eliminate it from my enquiries and hopefully ensure that is not likely to case a problem some time in the future. Then just pray things come right but changing the pump will have been a 'good thing' to have done anyway

thedogsbollox wrote:
OK so i can see nowt immediately wrong with the pump but i am guessing that if the chamfered edges of the fins are not close enough to the ring inside the block then there will be little or no pumpage as it were.
Gonna get a new one anyways.
Oh yeah, should it be spinning freely as it seems a bit stiff to me. There is no freeplay in the shaft/bearings though.

Wow, I've just replaced mine, and the impeller on the old one is still bright and shiny. The casing is discoloured - almost black (looks like anodising) but no sign of brown which I guess is rust. The difference is probably due to you running without antifreeze.
The seals must have gone on mine though as it was leaking badly. Bearings seemed OK - no roughness or play. The new one is stiffer to turn than the old one, but the old one does not spin freely.
New pump fixed the leak, although I could find nothing wrong with the old one out of the engine.
On another post dandywarhol mentions that a Ford Ranger one is identical, easier to get, and cheaper. Mine cost me £47.50 inc Vat and P&P.

Dave

Got mine for £42