Squiffy Roof!

[BongoMTBer]

I thought I would share an issue I had with my roof yesterday. I had the roof up all day and when I went to lower it, it went down on one side but not the other before getting twisted and stuck.

On careful inspection, I could see the left hand motor had been detached from the roof, meaning the when it tried to push the teleflex cable forwards to move the raising arm forward, the motor went back instead. This pushed the motor and cable outer back, exposing the inner cables.

The three screws that hold the motor assembly in place, thread into metal inserts that are bonded into the plastic roof. In my case, the bonding had failed and the inserts had come out allowing the motor to drop.

To sort it, I immediately stopped lowering and used a rubber mallet to drift the stuck lowering arm forward, whist guiding the cable back into the aluminium rail in the roof. After the roof had lowered the same on both sides, I fully raised the roof under power.

I took the mounting screws out and glued the inserts back into the roof and re-attached the motors and now all is well.

[g8dhe]

I suspect that the inserts are the same / similar to the ones holding the tent frame to the top of the AFT these have the same problem and drop out allowing the frame to drop. There was a thread just last week with three of us having the same problem. Time to check the motors bolts I think !!

[mikeonb4c]

I thought I would share an issue I had with my roof yesterday. I had the roof up all day and when I went to lower it, it went down on one side but not the other before getting twisted and stuck.

On careful inspection, I could see the left hand motor had been detached from the roof, meaning the when it tried to push the teleflex cable forwards to move the raising arm forward, the motor went back instead. This pushed the motor and cable outer back, exposing the inner cables.

The three screws that hold the motor assembly in place, thread into metal inserts that are bonded into the plastic roof. In my case, the bonding had failed and the inserts had come out allowing the motor to drop.

To sort it, I immediately stopped lowering and used a rubber mallet to drift the stuck lowering arm forward, whist guiding the cable back into the aluminium rail in the roof. After the roof had lowered the same on both sides, I fully raised the roof under power.

I took the mounting screws out and glued the inserts back into the roof and re-attached the motors and now all is well.

What an excellent thread and thanks for bringing it up.

There has been at least one expensive failure (Dreamwarrior) that sounded a bit like that, though I can't recall the actual details. I wonder if you would consider taking a few pics of the relevant bits and doing a factsheet for the Members Area as I could imagine this one happening to someone else as Bongos get older?

[BongoMTBer]

I will gladly do that Mike. When I get the chance to remove the motor on the other side, I shall get some pictures.

One thing I did learn, always watch the roof down!

[mikeonb4c]

One thing I did learn, always watch the roof down!

Agree+++ about that. After packing stuff up there neatly when I've been sleeping in it, I always close it with my head inside the roof, checking tenting is collapsing inwards properly, nothing fouling the sides, listening for any sign of straining from the motors, especially on the last stretch as I have a fair bit of stuff in the roof.

I remove my head before it is too late of course and listen by the folded back hatch opening.

PS - on the factsheet front and before making an effort, email Ian de Bongomeister to check he is happy to have it added to the library. But I'd have thought it would be an invaluable addition. A screwed AFT is something I would very much prefer NOT to ever have and your factsheet could be very valuable to owners (maybe we could subsequently get input from others who've had problems and fixed them).

[sandstone]

Was a fact sheet produced?

[sandstone]

Roof lifting Failure
The failure described above has also happened to me. Whilst lowering the roof, one side lowered but not the other, and a loud crack as roof edge split on one side. No-one about to spot this, and we always lower with the hatch closed. One side drive mechanism had driven as far as the end lock, but it couldn't pull the roof down to engage the lock, and the other side had stayed up. It all looked rather sad with a cracked roof on one side, and the roof still about 1/4 open and at an angle. The roof was cracked where the immobile mechanism was positioned.

Examination showed that the lowering mechanism had failed to advance forwards on the driver side. The original post on this thread was very useful as it pointed to the likely cause of the problem, without having to spend too much time reverse engineering possible root causes.

The driver side telemotor had come adrift from the roof, so the drive cable for that side had just looped around in the roof space when it was lowered, and the lowering mechanism did not move. When the roof was lifted this was not immediately evident as the cable had gone back to the other side, but the tail cable from the other side had come out of its channel and was dangling over the side of the van.

Repair:
1. Thread the tail cable from the other side back into the aluminum channel
2. Tension the telemotor forwards by pulling the drive cable forwards (ratchet strap between sliding mechanism and gas strut ball joint) so the rigid tube end bushes can be manipulated to re-enter the channel above
3. Put Araldite on the three inserts on the back of the telemotor plate and push back into roof holes, and secure until resin cured. Then tighten cross-head screws.
4. Examine telemotor on other side. In our case it was also about to come loose, so this glued also.
5. Fibre glass repair to roof side, with internal wood splint. (Can only do when roof up, so hold roof front end up with wood prop to ensure it does not sag when curing)

Note:
The two motors keep in sync by each meshing with the tail of the cable for the other side. The cable tails cross over on the back of the roof, and on each side one cable channel takes the driving cable, and one channel takes the tail of the cable from the other side. If the motor detaches, the tail cable from the other side will come out when the roof is fully lifted.

WARNING:
This phenomenon may be related to change of dimension with age of the inserts and/or their holes, (N reg Bongo described here) so prudent owners should take off the black plastic cover and just tug at the telemotor plate to see if it is going to come loose. This could save several difficult hours on a campsite. I would suggest this problem is going to become more prevalent with age.

[sandstone]

Pictures of roof lifting motors and cables
Further to earlier post describing lifting roof problem and repair.............

EDITED 04/01/18 Photos now retrieved and on last page of this discussion:

Picture of roof telemotor, (there are two in the roof) showing fixing screws




Picture showing how teleflex cables enter the channel.



Damage to roof. Sounds worse than it is.

[thedogsbollox]

First outing this year and nearly got stuck there. When putting the top down there was a clicking from the right side roof motor and it wasn't going down. Stopped immediately. The three inserts in the roof that the motor screws into all popped out. With help from a fellow camper we unscrewed the inserts and a combination of up and down presses on the button and levering the motor back up meant we could push the inserts back in and screw in the bolts. We pushed on the motor with a bar to make sure it didn't pop out again. Was able to drop the roof. I don't want to put it up again now. What should I bond them back in with and is there an underlying problem I should be looking for that caused it?
When the roof is locked out is it ok to remove the motor bolts?
When it popped the cables were out of the track and twisted somewhat. I managed to force them back in. I am worried that they are damaged. Any advice?

[g8dhe]

I think you will find that the inserts are the same as used to mount the frame to the top, these are well known to pop out, remove clean up and epoxy/araldite back in.
Given that it is a worm drive on to the cable it should be safe to remove the motors, but I would put a prop under the front just to make sure!

[mikeonb4c]

First outing this year and nearly got stuck there. When putting the top down there was a clicking from the right side roof motor and it wasn't going down. Stopped immediately. The three inserts in the roof that the motor screws into all popped out. With help from a fellow camper we unscrewed the inserts and a combination of up and down presses on the button and levering the motor back up meant we could push the inserts back in and screw in the bolts. We pushed on the motor with a bar to make sure it didn't pop out again. Was able to drop the roof. I don't want to put it up again now. What should I bond them back in with and is there an underlying problem I should be looking for that caused it?
When the roof is locked out is it ok to remove the motor bolts?
When it popped the cables were out of the track and twisted somewhat. I managed to force them back in. I am worried that they are damaged. Any advice?

Adrian at Japan Direct fixed mine when this happened. He's done a lot of AFT roof problem fixes. A quick call to him (0161-763-3003 from memory) and he would tell you what glue he uses, but I suspect a decent epoxy like Araldite would do it. I thought my cables etc would be stuffed but they seemed to survive no problem

I've since splashed out on two new motors as I had the other problem: dead motors on request. Age, damp and lack of use get to them says Adrian. I'm hoping it will be several years before the first two of these things get to the new motors in the absence of them doing much of the third thing (much the same as me really )

[thedogsbollox]

Cheers guys, araldite it is then. Might scratch up the inside of the hole as the old epoxy came out smooth as a baby's bum.

[mikeonb4c]

Cheers guys, araldite it is then. Might scratch up the inside of the hole as the old epoxy came out smooth as a baby's bum.

Absolutely - a good key is the key . And if you have the patience to leave it for a few days, normal slow settting Araldite is better than rapid (rapid is still good though probably goes brittle more over time, but slow setting does take the panic out of getting everything jigged up and secured in the correct position). Possibly the best on plastic is some stuff called Stabilit Express, if you can source a supply (alhough it is rapid setting, so be aware). Good luck Hoskins

[sandstone]

I used quick setting Araldite three years ago and still ok. Problem I think is due to shrinkage of plastic inserts with age.

[mikeonb4c]

I used quick setting Araldite three years ago and still ok. Problem I think is due to shrinkage of plastic inserts with age.

Yes I think it is perfectly adequate. When building model aircraft, I might use cheap exopy for non-critical stuff, but I always used RA for important stuff. And it is that little bit slower to set, plus less runny. Stabilit is a great product though, where plastic is involved.