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Does diesel Freeze ?
Posted: Tue Jan 06, 2009 7:58 pm
by pilajake
Whilst growing up during the sixties and seventies, I remember TV images of lorry drivers being parked up along motorways with fires under their fuel tanks
to defrost their fuel .
Does this still happen or was it colder during the sixties and seventies
or is it due to
Global warming maybe
Re: Does diesel Freeze ?
Posted: Tue Jan 06, 2009 8:20 pm
by scanner
pilajake wrote:Whilst growing up during the sixties and seventies, I remember TV images of lorry drivers being parked up along motorways with fires under their fuel tanks
to defrost their fuel .
Does this still happen or was it colder during the sixties and seventies
or is it due to
Global warming maybe
It doesn't freeze it "waxes" and that is now pretty much a thing of the past as diesel is now of a much higher quality than itb used to be and contains an anti-waxing additive in the "winter" grade sold in the winter months.
It is rumoured that the addition of this can lead to lower MPG, as it lowers the energy value of the fuel. but I can't find any definitive answer anywhere.
Re: Does diesel Freeze ?
Posted: Tue Jan 06, 2009 8:32 pm
by pilajake
scanner wrote:pilajake wrote:Whilst growing up during the sixties and seventies, I remember TV images of lorry drivers being parked up along motorways with fires under their fuel tanks
to defrost their fuel .
Does this still happen or was it colder during the sixties and seventies
or is it due to
Global warming maybe
It doesn't freeze it "waxes" and that is now pretty much a thing of the past as diesel is now of a much higher quality than itb used to be and contains an anti-waxing additive in the "winter" grade sold in the winter months.
It is rumoured that the addition of this can lead to lower MPG, as it lowers the energy value of the fuel. but I can't find any definitive answer anywhere.
So i am led to believe that "Winter" Diesel is different to "Summer" diesel and you get less Mpg during the cold period
due to anti-waxing additive
Re: Does diesel Freeze ?
Posted: Tue Jan 06, 2009 9:52 pm
by dandywarhol
There's certainly a different smell to the exhaust with the current diesel from the pumps. A litre of petrol in the tank will help stop the waxing in extreme conditions.
It seems even you soft southerners are getting cold snaps this winter
Re: Does diesel Freeze ?
Posted: Tue Jan 06, 2009 10:08 pm
by mikeonb4c
I reckon they put white spirit or something similar in it judging from the smell of mine recently
PS - I did read on t'internet some time back about Chicago airport using kerosene in their diesel to stop waxing
Re: Does diesel Freeze ?
Posted: Tue Jan 06, 2009 11:22 pm
by scanner
Found what I was looking for.................
http://www.shell.com/static/nz-en/downl ... winter.pdf
From Shell New Zealand.
Which concludes with this
Under no circumstances should a naked flame be used on any part of the fuel
system or fuel tank. NEVER ADD PETROL TO THE FUEL. The addition of petrol
could be extremely dangerous and it is also unlikely that it will dissolve wax.
In areas of New Zealand where the weather is very cold for long periods it
is advantageous to use Shell Thermol (50% mixture of diesel and kerosine)
as a temporary diesel engine fuel. Shell Thermol will provide cold flow
protection down to minus 30°C. However, care must be taken with the use of
Shell Thermol in warmer weather, as it does not provide the lubricity to
pumps and injectors that diesel fuel provides. To achieve this lubricity 1%
volume of clean lubricating oil can be added to Shell Thermol. Check with
the equipment manufacturer before using Thermol in your engine or
machinery.
Re: Does diesel Freeze ?
Posted: Tue Jan 06, 2009 11:24 pm
by Doone
Does diesel freeze?
I think the blood in my hands froze today!!
Re: Does diesel Freeze ?
Posted: Tue Jan 06, 2009 11:26 pm
by mikeonb4c
Re: Does diesel Freeze ?
Posted: Tue Jan 06, 2009 11:31 pm
by scanner
If you right click for the menu there is a "Rotate Clockwise" button, click it once and it rotates 90 degrees.
Re: Does diesel Freeze ?
Posted: Wed Jan 07, 2009 12:19 am
by mikeonb4c
scanner wrote:
If you right click for the menu there is a "Rotate Clockwise" button, click it once and it rotates 90 degrees.
C'mon scanner, I'm Irish
Re: Does diesel Freeze ?
Posted: Wed Jan 07, 2009 12:24 am
by mikeonb4c
Wow. Really interesting now I've read it. Don't add petrol, do add kerosine (and I'll bet white spirit would do at a pinch).
Re: Does diesel Freeze ?
Posted: Wed Jan 07, 2009 11:50 am
by karena
one of our farmers said his diesel had waxed in his tank yesterday he was about to stick petrol in it - mind you knowing our farmers, the diesel will have been there for yonks and is probably some sort of knock off / home made/illegal version of diesel.
Re: Does diesel Freeze ?
Posted: Wed Jan 07, 2009 12:13 pm
by bigdaddycain
With regards to the alleged reduced MPG figures using winter fuel, i think it would be negligible in real life scenario's... Fact is, We DO use our lights, wipers,heaters more in the winter time, we do let the vehicles idle whilst they warm up, and we do tend to leave the engines running for longer periods of time than we ordinarily would do at other times of the year.
I can't tell with the bongo, as i only drive that maybe 5% of the time at this time of year (when i treat myself)
A really generalised MPG figure of my 1.8 litre TD is around 44MPG in the summer, and dropped as low as 38.9MPG last night for example, that's at an average speed of 14MPH.
Re: Does diesel Freeze ?
Posted: Wed Jan 07, 2009 12:32 pm
by scanner
karena wrote:one of our farmers said his diesel had waxed in his tank yesterday he was about to stick petrol in it - mind you knowing our farmers, the diesel will have been there for yonks and is probably some sort of knock off / home made/illegal version of diesel.
Not necessarily - he may have just thought he could save a few p/litre by stocking up in the summer when diesel doesn't have the anti-wax additive in it.
In the Shell leaflet (above) it specifically warns against using "summer" diesel when it's below freezing.
Re: Does diesel Freeze ?
Posted: Wed Jan 07, 2009 12:51 pm
by dandywarhol
scanner wrote:Found what I was looking for.................
http://www.shell.com/static/nz-en/downl ... winter.pdf
From Shell New Zealand.
Which concludes with this
Under no circumstances should a naked flame be used on any part of the fuel
system or fuel tank. NEVER ADD PETROL TO THE FUEL. The addition of petrol
could be extremely dangerous and it is also unlikely that it will dissolve wax.
In areas of New Zealand where the weather is very cold for long periods it
is advantageous to use Shell Thermol (50% mixture of diesel and kerosine)
as a temporary diesel engine fuel. Shell Thermol will provide cold flow
protection down to minus 30°C. However, care must be taken with the use of
Shell Thermol in warmer weather, as it does not provide the lubricity to
pumps and injectors that diesel fuel provides. To achieve this lubricity 1%
volume of clean lubricating oil can be added to Shell Thermol. Check with
the equipment manufacturer before using Thermol in your engine or
machinery.
Only a cynic would think that Shell Thermol would cost more than petrol (if you can locate it)
moi???
A dopy friend of mine has TWICE run his 150,000 miles, older type diesel Passat for around 40 motorway miles on a full tank of petrol before it cut out at the end of the motorway turn off
- it's still going strong!
I'll still be adding a drop of petrol to my tank and keeping it topped up throughout the cold spell.