Bongo Fury

Here's a thought.

MadAsCheese Bongo was over last Sunday and I showed him how to use the Pela to do an oil change. He has a lovely quiet running converted S Reg Bongo, but the white paintwork has lost some of its gloss. I've seen this on at least one other white Bongo that had had good money spent on an excellent conversion. In both cases, you can see a few pinpricks of rust getting through and I find myself wondering if a great car may be compromised by exhausted paintwork.

In contrast, metallic paint cars that have clear lacquer on them seem (in general) to fare much better.

I wonder whether it would be quite easy and inexpensive to get the tired paintwork cleaned up, and any pinprick damage touched up, then mask off and clear lacquer the paintwork to restore a good quality shine and protect the paint from further deterioration. Should be a lot less complicated than a full respray and thus much cheaper. MadAsCheese believed some dealers do this with cars though I'd not heard of it before.

Anyone got any thoughts on this?

Interesting there Mike.

I've still got my trusty Rover '94 620 Sli knocking about. Its British Racing Green.

Most of these old motors have become infested with the rust mite although the green ones seem to suffer much less.

This is apparently due to the lead content in green paint at the time being rather high. (& as a consequence banned in case a small child were to swallow a family saloon)

Green Bongos seem to not get hit by rust too.

Maybe theres a link there . . . ?

Hi Mike
Many years ago, when dinosaurs still strolled the Earth, i went back to my studies as a mature student, and , as students do, i worked when i had time, to supplement my grant....so I worked valeting cars after a friend, and car trader , showed me how....I don't mean the wash and polish merchants who clean cars in a couple of hours, but to valet a car properly takes one day, and often more....starting with cleaning the engine, all the under-bonnet paint, hoses, battery, etc. and touching up the rust.....then onto tyres, wheels, interior...often stripping the inside, and always touching up minor paint marks.
One thing I learned about paint was that blue pigment was chemically weaker than many colours and usually couldn't be brought back if severely faded, and red was a nightmare for fading.....HOWEVER, there was a product called "Pepwax", which was better than T-Cut, not as abrasive, and left a wax coating on the car.....most traders simply couldn't believe it until they had seen it....Now, I don't know if this is still available from a body specialist, or whether there is an equivalent product, but a bit of asking around a few places may pay dividends . Nowadays, car paints are far superior, and they don't suffer as in the old days, and a particular colour is no better than another, however, the paint shop at Mazda could always have produced a better batch with the green ones....now that DOES happen from time to time.
With the white Bongos, I suspect the chips and bubbles show more,and my advice would be to treat them individually. If you need to touch up the paint as a whole, then why not a complete blow -over....it would be no different to re-lacquering, and produce a good job at a similar price.
Cheers
Helen

Interesting Helen

Although not officially a paintwork expert, I've observed for some time this business of (some) paintwork matting up before its time. My father in law has an R Reg red Mazda 323 with no gloss left on the paintwork. I actually used lacquer (polyurethane would you believe!) over custom metallic spray work on a chopper motorbike I built in c1970 - peeps said it was a mad idea and wouldn't work, but it did and some while later I discovered car makers were using this technique.

All I'm really suggesting is a more permanent alternative to Pepwax really. Surely it must be a lot less work to re-gloss existing paintwork with lacquer than rubbing down, complex masking off (you'd have to mask off with lacquer but not with the same fastidiousness), primer then topcoat. The real question is can the existing be prepped to a decent standard so that the effect after lacquering will be good enough to make the vehicle look smart again, or will it look second rate (bearing in mind it is starting to look second rate AND is losing protection with the paintwork having become matt and permeable).


What we really need is an old banger to do a trial on. I've thought of asking my father in law but I suspect he'd take the suggestion the wrong way!

Hi
....Re-lacquer the father- in- law????....you could have something there....I can see it now:-
"Revitalise That Tired- Looking Gent.....Visit Doctor Mike's Clinique".....Guaranteed Results

Cheers
Helen

My Bongos all white, showing rust spots and some small dull patches.
Its booked into a spray shop tomorrow to have this sorted along with a new bodykit being sprayed and fitted. After chatting with the guy i have decided that i didnt buy the wrong colour ( thought i had and wished i bought something darker).
He told me that the WHITE is no different to having any other colour. We strolled over to our silver taxi which 8 years younger than the bongo and on close inspection it had more small rust spots and dull patches than the bongo. I hadnt noticed them before.
He says that a GOOD PROPER BACK BREAKING polish twice a year should keep the van right.
Bev

BEVANDGED wrote:My Bongos all white, showing rust spots and some small dull patches.
Its booked into a spray shop tomorrow to have this sorted along with a new bodykit being sprayed and fitted. After chatting with the guy i have decided that i didnt buy the wrong colour ( thought i had and wished i bought something darker).
He told me that the WHITE is no different to having any other colour. We strolled over to our silver taxi which 8 years younger than the bongo and on close inspection it had more small rust spots and dull patches than the bongo. I hadnt noticed them before.
He says that a GOOD PROPER BACK BREAKING polish twice a year should keep the van right.
Bev

What I don't understand is why am I seeing white Bongos with matting of the paintwork. Maybe it's just coincidence. But even before Bongo's, I'd started to puzzle about UK purchased cars with metallic finish (one uncertain factor with Bongos is whether coming from different climactic parts of Japan e.g. the North is a factor) appearing to stay glossier and better than straight colour cars.

I'm sure yer man is right about the back breaking polish - problem is, getting around to it!

Perhaps I shouldn't have mentioned the rust pinpricks in the same thread. I had a silver Nissan Sunny that - at 18 years old - had a gloss on the paintwork almost as goon as new. But it did have pinpricks, due I think to inevitable chipping over the years. But they didn't spread much at all - is it possible that a matted paint finish is more permeable and holds wet/damp for longer, increasing the chance of bubbling?

I'd still like to try a lacquer only treatment on an old banger to see if it was a technique with any merit.

Good luck with the respray - I'd love to see before and after pics (hint hint) including close-ups of the bad bits

mikeonb4c
Going to ask the guys to take some before close up pics when i drop it off tonight as its raining cats n dogs here.
They want it garaged before they start the work, either to make sure its dry or so they can nip off for a night camping first.! Hoping to get it back friday.
Good luck with the old banger project. Its all interesting stuff !!!!
Bev

Check this out iv'e seen the finishing result on my brotherinlaws car. very impressed .When i saw his car i thought it had been proffesionaly valeted. But no he used this stuff a fortnight previous. Its called Lustrelab LXR . Just bought some my self. Its from QVC Shopping channel
http://www.qvc.co.uk . just type the name of the stuff in search and theres also a short video on how it 's used and the result Quite a large bottle( the bottle is larger than it looks on the video ) and you only need a bit.

I'll be interested to see if and what you conlude on this Mike.

As you know, my Bongo's white over silver, and I've observed over the first six months we've had it, how dull the paintwork can become. The bonnet particularly became very dull and obviously then started showing terrible marks, even after a wash. I was considering t-cut to brighten it up first and then polish, but i'd bookmarked a thread on here from a while back, where BDC was suggesting the paint on Bongos may be quite thin and that one should approach t-cutting with cuation! - I therefore decided to just try polishing and started with Autoglym on the bonnet and front wings. The polish took all the blemish marks off and brought it up looking smart and shiny.

All this said, I don't think it'll be too long before it'll need doing again (esp with all this bloody rain ) and I guess that's where a laquer would help.

I've also got one or two tiny rust spots showing here and there. They seem to be on the uprights either side of windscreen and also at the back end of the edge of the gutter.

Hi Northerntaff
It is as I said...white is no different to the other colours....touch up the stone chips, and clean the paintwork....Bigdaddy is right about the paint , possibly, but it will be the lacquer rather than the colour that is thin. When you have cleaned the paintwork, re-wax it with HARD wax, and this will protect the paint if you do it 2- 3 times a year. The dullness you see on your paint may well be traffic film, and other pollutants...usually kept at bay with hard wax, as the liquid stuff only cleans and often doesn't last anywhere near as long
Cheers
Helen

Mike? Lacquering over a solid coloured gloss isn't as likely to adhere as it would to the basecoat of the metallic finishes. The basecoat is satin in finish,the lacquer applied afterwards is what contains "the shine".

There is also the issue of applying new lacquer to (in some cases) 13 year old gloss paint

I'd suggest using a clay bar kit on the bongo first to see if that removes the contaminants that make the finish dull,followed by a good polishing, and then a sealant such as Autoglym's excellent "extra deep gloss protection".

Failing that, (if a re-spray is imminent),as a last resort, try a gentle mopping of the paintwork,using a red coloured finishing polishing mop,and a fine grit farecla cutting compound,with plenty of soapy water spray to avoid polishing swirls...then a claying,polish,sealant etc.

If using a conventional grinder for fitting the mop to, check the rpm of the grinder,2500 rpm is about the limit for most mop heads.

Any faster and there is a real chance the paint can be burnt/scorched! It would need a respray then.

The chips (especially on a solid colour) can be repaired really well by an enthusiastic,patient home d.i.y.er. The trick is to slowly build up the recess of the chip to a slightly proud of surface level(with touch up pen),then careful wet & dry flatting,followed by a mopping,polishing,sealing scenario as above.

Great advice there BigDaddy, from the Man who Can. Haven't posted yet, but took your tip about Mer and used it yesterday - fantastic stuff.

Nothing will move me on wanting to try the lacquer thing though - you know me, The Man Who Wont Be Told. BUT, this thread is slowly coming up with so many good alternatives for victims to try that I'll end up shoved back in my box anyway. But give me an old banger and a can of lager errrrr lacquer and I'd be dead curious to see what happens (probably cr*p but hey!)

Oh yes, it's a sound principle mike,and one would think it SHOULD work. I daresay in some cases it would work really well, as a well applied lacquer over tired paint should work really in principle... Now perhaps, and i do mean PERHAPS... IF the original tired paintwork could be succesfully keyed,without the "keying blemishes" showing through the lacquer.... You see where i'm coming from?

Take a regular basecoat for example...Let's use our neat green colour for instance... Say we were Respraying a wing for example,imagine we had just finished the basecoat in green,and the next stage was mixing up the lacquer.... then we spotted a blemish on the basecoat that needed a spot of flatting with a fine wet & dry... The tiny scratches that would be left on the surface of the delicate basecoat (which may be invisible to the eye) would most definitely show through once the lacquer had been applied,especially when viewed in direct sunlight,in fact, the lacquer would have a magnifying effect on the invisible blemish.

Use grey scotchbrite pads with Farecla G-matt paste and water, rinse well and re lacquer. Will adhere fine