Page 1 of 1

5 or 6 speed automatic gearbox.

Posted: Tue May 20, 2008 9:00 pm
by paul gange
Hi all thinking caps on again please,is it possible to fit a 5 or 6 speed automatic gearbox to the old bongo feller,i thought it might make a difference to the fuel economy if its possible.many thanks for your educated guess.

Re: 5 or 6 speed automatic gearbox.

Posted: Tue May 20, 2008 9:51 pm
by Bob
Personaly I wouldn't have thought the savings would justify the huge effort and expense. Someone may know different. Good luck.

Re: 5 or 6 speed automatic gearbox.

Posted: Tue May 20, 2008 10:11 pm
by Bongoplod
Fully agree with Bob on that one

Brian

Re: 5 or 6 speed automatic gearbox.

Posted: Tue May 20, 2008 10:21 pm
by moonshine
I would have thought that the most significant fuel saving factor in the gearing of the Bongo, or any other vehicle for that matter, was the final drive ratio, not how many gears it has. Surely the lower the engine revs for a given speed, the less fuel is used? My thoughts therefore are that with more gears to go through, the engine would spend more time at high revs, so would use more fuel, not less.

Mind you, I could be completely wrong. :?

Re: 5 or 6 speed automatic gearbox.

Posted: Tue May 20, 2008 10:51 pm
by Aethelric
moonshine wrote:I would have thought that the most significant fuel saving factor in the gearing of the Bongo, or any other vehicle for that matter, was the final drive ratio, not how many gears it has. Surely the lower the engine revs for a given speed, the less fuel is used? My thoughts therefore are that with more gears to go through, the engine would spend more time at high revs, so would use more fuel, not less.

Mind you, I could be completely wrong. :?
Sounds right to me, as long as the vehicle is undergeared (like a bongo) Torchwood improved his ratio and fuel consumption by fitting bigger wheels.

Re: 5 or 6 speed automatic gearbox.

Posted: Tue May 20, 2008 10:55 pm
by dandywarhol
The 'box doesn't really need extra gears - it already has 5 "stages" of which 4 are gears and 1 is torque convertor lockup which gives the impression of a 5th gear. Are you sure you're getting 5 stages of upshift?

Re: 5 or 6 speed automatic gearbox.

Posted: Thu May 22, 2008 8:23 pm
by bigdaddycain
I can see the reasoning behind your thinking paul,but i suspect quite a lot of time, effort, and development went into the engine/gearbox ratio's for the bongo. I think the best compromise has been struck. You'd run the risk of completely spoiling the characteristics of the bongo by changing things willy nilly...

Re: 5 or 6 speed automatic gearbox.

Posted: Sun May 25, 2008 11:18 am
by SimonT
What is a torque convertor lockup?

Re: 5 or 6 speed automatic gearbox.

Posted: Sun May 25, 2008 11:52 am
by Dolly1
Someone who converts torques, and then locks them up.Don,t you know anyfink ??

Re: 5 or 6 speed automatic gearbox.

Posted: Sun May 25, 2008 1:11 pm
by John the sparky
Inside a Torque Converter


As shown in the figure below, there are four components inside the very strong housing of the torque converter:
Pump
Turbine
Stator
Transmission fluid

The housing of the torque converter is bolted to the flywheel of the engine, so it turns at whatever speed the engine is running at. The fins that make up the pump of the torque converter are attached to the housing, so they also turn at the same speed as the engine. The cutaway below shows how everything is connected inside the torque converter.

The pump inside a torque converter is a type of centrifugal pump. As it spins, fluid is flung to the outside, much as the spin cycle of a washing machine flings water and clothes to the outside of the wash tub. As fluid is flung to the outside, a vacuum is created that draws more fluid in at the center.

The fluid then enters the blades of the turbine, which is connected to the transmission. The turbine causes the transmission to spin, which basically moves your car. You can see in the graphic below that the blades of the turbine are curved. This means that the fluid, which enters the turbine from the outside, has to change direction before it exits the center of the turbine. It is this directional change that causes the turbine to spin.

In order to change the direction of a moving object, you must apply a force to that object -- it doesn't matter if the object is a car or a drop of fluid. And whatever applies the force that causes the object to turn must also feel that force, but in the opposite direction. So as the turbine causes the fluid to change direction, the fluid causes the turbine to spin.

The fluid exits the turbine at the center, moving in a different direction than when it entered. If you look at the arrows in the figure above, you can see that the fluid exits the turbine moving opposite the direction that the pump (and engine) are turning. If the fluid were allowed to hit the pump, it would slow the engine down, wasting power. This is why a torque converter has a stator.

The Stator
The stator resides in the very center of the torque converter. Its job is to redirect the fluid returning from the turbine before it hits the pump again. This dramatically increases the efficiency of the torque converter.

The stator sends the fluid returning from the turbine to the pump. This improves the efficiency of the torque converter. Note the spline, which is connected to a one-way clutch inside the stator.

The stator has a very aggressive blade design that almost completely reverses the direction of the fluid. A one-way clutch (inside the stator) connects the stator to a fixed shaft in the transmission (the direction that the clutch allows the stator to spin is noted in the figure above). Because of this arrangement, the stator cannot spin with the fluid -- it can spin only in the opposite direction, forcing the fluid to change direction as it hits the stator blades.

Something a little bit tricky happens when the car gets moving. There is a point, around 40 mph (64 kph), at which both the pump and the turbine are spinning at almost the same speed (the pump always spins slightly faster). At this point, the fluid returns from the turbine, entering the pump already moving in the same direction as the pump, so the stator is not needed.

Even though the turbine changes the direction of the fluid and flings it out the back, the fluid still ends up moving in the direction that the turbine is spinning because the turbine is spinning faster in one direction than the fluid is being pumped in the other direction. If you were standing in the back of a pickup moving at 60 mph, and you threw a ball out the back of that pickup at 40 mph, the ball would still be going forward at 20 mph. This is similar to what happens in the turbine: The fluid is being flung out the back in one direction, but not as fast as it was going to start with in the other direction.

At these speeds, the fluid actually strikes the back sides of the stator blades, causing the stator to freewheel on its one-way clutch so it doesn't hinder the fluid moving through it.
hope this helps

John

Re: 5 or 6 speed automatic gearbox.

Posted: Sun May 25, 2008 2:08 pm
by SimonT
HI John,
Thank you for your reply to my question.
Much appriciated !!