DIY non invasive temperature gauge probe placement ideas...

[jaylee]

Sensors are on the metal top hose stub & heater outlet hose stub on the engine, Helen...

[helen&tony]

Hi Jay
Thanks
I have more on the bottom hose and the heater inlet...any chance you could do likewise?...I also have Turbo boost in the data...did you add yours?...Also, TM2 on the head...any chance of co-ordinating data?....It would be good to have the same sensor positions...'fraid I can't re-run until the roads are repaired, but it would be Kool to re-run the data with existing data...and at the same frequency of collection....Also, if you wish, PM me on temps, and service/ replacement data re: parts, and so on...could be good to try to get a complete matching set...I also have fan sensors etc. etc.
You're ahead of me in fuel filter and banjo servicing
Cheers
Helen

[widdowson2008]

I may be the cause of a misunderstanding here.

Data from Jaylees unit was taken to evaluate the gauge. No more, no less.
Data from Helens (a far more in depth excercise) was taken to try and establish a relationship between various points on the plumbing circuit in an attempt to get some sort of idea what was controlling what.

There will be those who say 'well, we always knew that!'
To them I ask the question 'Why didn't you say so and save us all a lot of bother'.
(I was attempting to provide proof, not just an educated guess)

I compared the two data collections earlier in the thread to see how close the data coincided, initially on the top hose, and it was very similar, suggesting that Jaylees unit was an acceptable method of temperature measurement, so 'quod erat demonstrandum'.

My mistake was to involve the heater circuit in the comparison. Reason? Top hose was OK because the readings were taken from almost identical locations whereas the heater readings were not.

Sorry if I mislead the thread.

[The Great Pretender]

1. Interesting, but to understand and correlate the information the bottom line should be time related. Makes it so much easier to read.

1. Time line? I suppose I could work this out from the map and the speeds (which were quite detailed) but what will it tell us? Approx revs could also be calculated from the data. Should that be added? Graph is already looking cluttered. However, if you think there is value, ....

I assumed that as a graph needs x and y coordinates that the x was time, if it wasn't what was used for x?

[helen&tony]

Hi Steve...
You haven't mislead the thread...just a different set of data ...both establish that both systems work.
As regards the "I knew that" sector, it kind of reminds me of my stepdaughter's boyfriend as was (well, you can't choose for them )...At the end of his constant burbling about the "best car ", I asked what he would buy given the money...
"Porsche" came the answer..."what would you buy?"
"Ferrari" I replied.....his response......."Well, Of course I meant Ferrari"
Cheers
Helen

[widdowson2008]

1. Interesting, but to understand and correlate the information the bottom line should be time related. Makes it so much easier to read.

1. Time line? I suppose I could work this out from the map and the speeds (which were quite detailed) but what will it tell us? Approx revs could also be calculated from the data. Should that be added? Graph is already looking cluttered. However, if you think there is value, ....

I assumed that as a graph needs x and y coordinates that the x was time, if it wasn't what was used for x?

Data point. For the sake of safety and practicability, Jamie took the readings and recorded them with a microphone - an ongoing string of data. (I think - Jamie?) and then when he got home typed them out.
So the actual distance or time between the readings was arbitrary. Need Jamie to clarify this.
I can understand why you would prefer to see a time/dstance 'x' value, but it makes no difference to the numbers sequence for the sake of this excercise (which was to evaluate the output of the gauge). Had the graph been all over the place with no general trend, then I would have dismissed the numbers as invalid, but they weren't - they followed the pattern quite well. Result for me (in this excercise) indicates that the £6 gauge is value for money, and at least 1000000000% more reliable than the Mazda gauge as an temperature indicator . So for me, QED

[widdowson2008]

Hi Steve...
You haven't mislead the thread...just a different set of data ...both establish that both systems work.
As regards the "I knew that" sector, it kind of reminds me of my stepdaughter's boyfriend as was (well, you can't choose for them )...At the end of his constant burbling about the "best car ", I asked what he would buy given the money...
"Porsche" came the answer..."what would you buy?"
"Ferrari" I replied.....his response......."Well, Of course I meant Ferrari"
Cheers
Helen

I think I did mislead the thread (unintentionally) in two ways.
1. I didn't point out (or make it crystal clear) that we were 'evaluating' Jamies £6 gauge as a means of temperature monitoring.
2. I should NEVER have even suggested a comparison with the data collected from yours. Two totally different excercises, each seeking a different goal.

What I DO believe, (as said previously) is that for £6 gauge, Jamie has found something that does the job admirably, and certainly FAAARR superior to the Mazda gauge (modified or not) as a temperature indicator.

C'mon - for £6? - it's a no brainer.

Before Haydn gets stressed, I hasten to say that I have a TM-2, which does the same job (and more) and has audible alarms. And I wouldn't be without it. It's done 2 years service now, but If it ever broke, I would be on to Haydn within the hour and buy another one, such is my faith in it.

[helen&tony]

Hi Steve...
If it works well, it's a good find, and better than a modified Mazda gauge, which is a bit "trial and error" on setting...It seems that would DEFINITELY be the way to go...that and an LCA from Haydn...which has saved my bacon on both occasions that the heater stubs failed FRONT AND REAR...and both at a very good cost compared to a cooked engine....Frankly, a MUST on any old car. Personal preference is a TM2 as well, and the Cubes are good and easy to wire...
Cheers
Helen

[jaylee]

Initially i put a bid in on a listed gauge (It wasn't buy now.) & won it for £6.19. I was the only bidder...
Then Steve contacted me on the back of this thread & asked where i am going to fit the second sensor...
I hadn't really thought of that, the first was going on the top hose stub.. After a brief experiment with the second probe on the rubber top hose...
http://www.igmaynard.co.uk/bongo/forum/ ... =3&t=51063



& taking into account of where i was eventually gonna put it...! (The heater hose stub.)



Which was a fiddle...!

I already had a handheld device (which i can use on any part of the system in situe, but not on the move.)
http://www.igmaynard.co.uk/bongo/forum/ ... p+pop+quiz

I took the same route (Roughly from Chippenham to Kingwood side of Bristol & Back.) The first time logging changes in temp in layby's writing it down... (After hill climbs & the like)
The second time i set up video, so i could concentrate on the drive without stopping... But the footage i saw when i got home strobe'd.. (a little like the Knight rider car thing on the bonnet.) Though from my brief observation at that time were the same readings..!
The third time i decided to use an old MP3 player with recording ability placed in my breast pocket, calling out speed & any changes in temp on both channels, hills ect... Certain points in the journey i refrained from such activity regarding traffic build up & the like.. I didn't want to be driving without due care...!
Next i took the van on a stretch of M4 between Bath & Chippenham, stopping at the services along the way to check out the temp after a speedy run, regarding removal of heat soak..

My motivation for all of this is, after a new water pump, stat, pipes over a year ago.. (Coolant level has been consistent since this service.) & checking all my fans work.. I wanted some figures that interpreted what my Mason modded gauge was saying.... (i do a fair few trips round Europe.)
I have never had an overheating issue, apart from a top hose leak 3 years ago? Which actually thanks to the Mason, i caught in time!
I've learnt a lot along the way, & as always i appreciate the valuable input from the techies..
I'm not a natural spanner wielder... Just fancy getting a bit more hands on & keep this vehicle running as long as possible... I'm rather attached to it!!

If from these figures it looked like i needed a new radiator..?? Then the money saved on this cheap gauge unit helps the cause..!

Next, i have to change the fuel hoses & filter.. Plus a slight rear arch rust issue...
I already got to tax the van at the end of the month....!

[widdowson2008]

Thanks for detailed explanation Jamie. Sounds better coming from you.
To reinforce what I was getting at Jamiegauge vs Mazda, I did this little graphic representation. I speeded up the graphic. THE NUMBERS DON'T GO UP AT THIS RATE IN REALITY.
It demonstrates how useless the Mazda gauge is. As the digital readout increases and decreases, the Mazda gauge just sits there telling you NOWT.

[missfixit70]

If from these figures it looked like i needed a new radiator..??

Your figures for the top hose look right to me, almost identical to mine & I've got new everything on the cooling system (bar the heater matrix), so I don't reckon there's any need to replace your rad just yet from those numbers Top work from you both


I'd just like to qualify Steve's statement

It demonstrates how useless the Mazda gauge is. As the digital readout increases and decreases, the UNMODIFIED Mazda gauge just sits there telling you NOWT.

[widdowson2008]

I'd just like to qualify Steve's statement

It demonstrates how useless the Mazda gauge is. As the digital readout increases and decreases, the UNMODIFIED Mazda gauge just sits there telling you NOWT.

Could say I deliberately did a typo .......... but I would be lying.
Well spotted Kirsty

[missfixit70]

Even the modified gauge (Mason or DIY) is not necessarily accurate though & doesn't give you numbers, I like to be able to glance down & see where the needle is to give me a rough idea of temps (& have the back up of the Mason alarm if it gets towards fan switching temp ie 96 ish), but I've got my cheapy digital temp gauge to give me something more concrete.

[dave_aber]

That's one ordered for me. Just got to work out where to put it now!

[tallbongo]

Mine arrived today - quick shipping from China. All I need now is my Bongo back to fit it.